raptor14
Expert Class
Posts: 264
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posted June 08, 2006 12:35 PM
Octane Dilution At The Pump?
Since I don't get my 14 until this Saturday, I feel free to ask a dumb question. My understanding is that the 14 wants 91 (R+M)/2 octane. Same as my Audi. I had to
put 87 in the Audi once and when the engine was under load the sensors picked up a
tendency to knock and retarded the timing. I could feel the power loss. Now here's
the issue and question. Most of the gas stations around my area have single hoses. So if the guy before you pumps regular, there's about a gallon or so left in the system when he
leaves. I pull up, select 91 octane, and get my first gallon as 87. Doesn't matter in the
15 gallons for the Audi. Anyone out there got experience with this on a bike. 20-25 percent of your fuel could be lower octane than what you want. My FZ1 runs fine on 87 so this was
never an issue.
  
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted June 08, 2006 01:07 PM
quote:
. . . I feel free to ask a dumb question. . . . . Most of the gas stations around my area have single hoses. So if the guy before you pumps regular, there's about a gallon or so left in the system when he
leaves. I pull up, select 91 octane, and get my first gallon as 87. Doesn't matter in the
15 gallons for the Audi. Anyone out there got experience with this on a bike. 20-25 percent of your fuel could be lower octane than what you want.
I don't think its a dumb question at all. I do think you'll find that the hose from the valve to the nozzle is much smaller than you might think. Especially in this era of vapor recovery, the actual delivery hose is really quite small. I bet there isn't much more than a quart or so in the lines.
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted June 08, 2006 01:34 PM
I've been alternating tanks of mid grade 89 Octane with high test 91 Octane with absolutely no sign of pinging from the engine so I would say you have no worries with the little bit of fuel that is in the hose.
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raptor14
Expert Class
Posts: 264
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posted June 08, 2006 01:51 PM
Thanks. Seems like a lot of volume between the nozzle and the pump outlet but I've never
measured what's actually there. Guess I won't be concerned. Hell, I'm more concerned about the weather and not getting to pick the bike up Saturday. Don't care much for riding an unfamiliar high powered bike with new tires on a rain slick road. No problem once I know the bike and the tires have some mileage on them. If not Saturday, well, I've waited a long time for red. Turned down black and blue. So I guess I can wait a day or two longer.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted June 08, 2006 03:06 PM
I've been running 87 and no knocking, ran 87 in my busa for 9000 miles before I sold it with no knocking
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Squareman357
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted June 08, 2006 03:21 PM
I've been alternating tanks of 89 and 91 trying to determine if there is a difference. No knocking, but there is a slight "seat of the pants" difference with the 89...or am I just imagining things? I just don't want to fubar something from running the 89, but it says 90 so I didn't think 1 octane difference would matter...
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 08, 2006 03:25 PM
quote:
I've been alternating tanks of 89 and 91 trying to determine if there is a difference. No knocking, but there is a slight "seat of the pants" difference with the 89...or am I just imagining things? I just don't want to fubar something from running the 89, but it says 90 so I didn't think 1 octane difference would matter...
Your not feeling things .. It's a fact that the lowest octane that you can use without knocking will make the best hp...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted June 08, 2006 03:27 PM
IF the engine doesn't go into an ignition retard mode, due to readings from a knock sensor, the engine would make best power with the lowest octane fuel that doesn't detonate or pre-ignite. I don't know if the 14 has a knock sensor . . .
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted June 08, 2006 03:28 PM
 Edited By: Stalwart on 8 Jun 2006 16:29
Smokin beat me to the punch 
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 08, 2006 03:32 PM
There is no knock sensor. That's the single biggest reason that all modern sportbikes require premium, just to make sure...
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 08, 2006 03:33 PM
And the reason there is no knock sensor? Same reason there's no closed loop on a motor that can spin from 1 to 12K in a second or so...
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Vegasdude
Zone Head
Posts: 821
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posted June 08, 2006 03:56 PM
I would hope you have more to worry about than what is in a gas hose..........haha..........
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted June 08, 2006 04:49 PM
in my state......its not a gallon
the regulators swear its less than a 1/2 gallon
you never know whats in the ground
whats in the hose
lots of peeps like me run middle octane
which is 1/2 hi......1/2 low
now we know taht some stations put LOW
in both tanks................big low down profits
no less with the mandatory ethanol......sometime more
sometimes less
we were adviosed by alton labs
an offshoot of the Ethyl corp
that at one had everything to do with octane in america
use shell
chevron
bp ultimate only
exxon
dang i can only remember 4 out of the 5
dang brain fade
at any rate in areas where these dont apply
you are on your own
it was a 2.5 hour seminar
they were with all oil companies
jet & aircraft fuel
kinda got the impression he knew what he was talking about
caveat
does not mean that i do
not my area of expertise
& except for #5
im just passin along the info
good luck
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bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted June 08, 2006 04:50 PM
You are fine with mid-grade.
My new R1 has a higher (by half a point) compression ratio than the 14 and it runs just fine on mid-grade (actually better than premium).
As stated above, run the lowest octane fuel the motor is happy with and you'll make the highest HP.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted June 08, 2006 05:04 PM
Raptor, not to worry dude...
Alot of us DragRacers use 87 octane pump gas, if not then use VP race fuel mr9 which is 87 octane - thats what I use!!!
No problems!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 08, 2006 06:07 PM
So...I'm paying for 91 or higher...and getting old shit 87? That fucking sucks...just another way for the fuckers to steal more money from me. :P
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FYYFF!!!
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted June 09, 2006 03:58 AM
Here are some facts about octane I've discovered.
1. Engine runs somewhat quieter with 87 than 93 FACT.
2. No responce or heat difference that I could tell. Fact
3. Better MPG with 87. Fact
4. Most importaint if you have a loud FI system please try 87 Octane. IT WILL QUIET DOWN. Fact
OK I can only tell you all what I've discovered, can't tell you why what happends well happends but I'm sticking with 87.
Rob
5,701 miles
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted June 12, 2006 04:02 PM
1st of all let me refer all to the "Top Tier"
site on google....they explain it very well
about the certification for the minimum......
or baseline additives
BP does not certify all grades.......
altho ultimrte makes the cut
hear mid atlantic we are locked in
by what comes up the kinder morgan pipeline
& while there are dozens of "boutique" refineries
& rerefiners
im sticking with the name name brands
that can be found most anywhere
i switched to shell.......
what the heck
check ot the "Top Tier gasolines"
then youll be in the know
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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