aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted June 04, 2006 08:52 AM
I saw a guy saw a lady in half once -- and put her back together...
  
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted June 04, 2006 11:50 AM
beading, you think I'm about to charge someone just so I could even recover the grand (I ate) buying a DFI assembly that's sitting here in pieces? Think if I found something as simple as tying two wires together; I'd package it? Not me. The fix is immediately posted if I could figure it out. The street savvy riders know what I'm talking about. No one wants to wear someone's fender marks for a Tattoo.
Keep playing with the parts you can't replace. How many (DFI) assemblies are sitting on your bench trying to figure it out? Try harder!
You have Mikuni, the ECU company (if not all owned by K?), and K.... all combined (teams of engineers) to make the power perform in a certain fashion, and you have a handle on it within a month's time?
Please be on the same page when you want to talk about the 14's Digital Fuel Injection. The technical terms are "subthrottle" (ECU operated) and "Main" (hand throttle). This eliminates the difficulty remembering... secondary plate, first plate, upper plate, lower plate, throttle plate, ECU plate, and any other plate I left out that does who to what???
Continue your search........ you might get lucky? Cha-Ching! Nothing wrong with entrepreneurship.
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E-tard
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted June 04, 2006 01:58 PM
guessI got lucky but I am not as bad as the guy who tore off fairing and lights trying to get 200 h/p out of his bike.still got the skins on mine..most of the time. bill gates started in his garage...harley started in a 8 by 10 shed.not looking to get rich....er. just love a good challange and have been a kawasaki fan for 40 years. got all the tools and love to work with my hands instead of sitting on my ass watching tv all the time plus have alot of smart friends who do this kinda stuff for a living. when I am sure this thing works with out any harm....everybody who cares will know.
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted June 04, 2006 02:00 PM
guessI got lucky but I am not as bad as the guy who tore off fairing and lights trying to get 200 h/p out of his bike.still got the skins on mine..most of the time. bill gates started in his garage...harley started in a 8 by 10 shed.not looking to get rich....er. just love a good challange and have been a kawasaki fan for 40 years. got all the tools and love to work with my hands instead of sitting on my ass watching tv all the time plus have alot of smart friends who do this kinda stuff for a living. when I am sure this thing works with out any harm....everybody who cares will know.
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scificanada
Expert Class
Posts: 411
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posted June 04, 2006 02:39 PM
Out of curiousity, and I know this shows my age, but what would this engine be like with a big set of Mikuni Flat Slide carbs?
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Be a predator, not prey.
2006 Blue(the fastest colour) ZX14, Brock Ti Gen 3, Secondary Butterflies out, PCIII with Brock Map, Muzzy Frame Sliders.
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted June 04, 2006 02:47 PM
quote:
Out of curiousity, and I know this shows my age, but what would this engine be like with a big set of Mikuni Flat Slide carbs?
The engine would probably feel slower with mechanical carbs. Mechanical carbs went out in the 1990s. Fuel management and delivery has advanced significantly since those days.
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Drowland
Zone Head
Posts: 733
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posted June 04, 2006 03:06 PM
waiting
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted June 04, 2006 03:17 PM
What are you waiting for?
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted June 04, 2006 03:45 PM
quote:
Out of curiousity, and I know this shows my age, but what would this engine be like with a big set of Mikuni Flat Slide carbs?
It would exhibit better driveability and produce far better fuel mileage in my opinion...
Then again, I'm a dinosaur too.
I truly miss my old ZX-11. That 'ol girl would knock down 52mpg on the freeway and exhibited absolutely no surging or bothersome programing-induced fuel injection glitches. On top of that, tuning the beastie was a piece of cake. A few shims under the needles, set the idle air bleeds, one size up on the mains and presto.
I think that when the perfect fuel injection system is invented, it'll be a flat slide carb. Fuel injection is a step backwards in my opinion, brought on by emissions regulations rather than a quest for betterment in driveability, fuel mileage and/or performance.
And, oddly enough, as always, YMMV (pun intended)
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted June 04, 2006 04:00 PM
goverment strikes again
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted June 04, 2006 04:01 PM
love my old smooth bores
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted June 04, 2006 04:20 PM
Mechanical carbs do many things but improve drivability is not one of them. Throw open flatsides at 4,000 RPMs and you will fall flat on your face.
As far as tuning goes, needles and shims are easy but you are stuck with one setting at all RPMs. Digital allows for proper fuel management at all RPMs. Or maybe all the race teams have it wrong and will be throwing away their DFI systems...
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712
Novice Class
Posts: 38
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posted June 04, 2006 04:28 PM
Digital Fuel Injection is great no more cold start hassles and PC tuning easy as pie, but I admit I miss the sound of flat slides clacking at idle, sweet music
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 04, 2006 04:33 PM
Fuel injection is good... the manufactures need to start selling bikes with programable ecm, so we can tune glitches, low rpm dead spots, and our brains out !
It wouldn't cost much. Silicone is cheap these days, and everyfucking thing else has usb or firewire ports!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted June 04, 2006 04:52 PM
quote:
injection is good...
It wouldn't cost much. Silicone is cheap these days, and everyfucking thing else has us fucking our brains out !!
Dub: I could not resist, your post, I had to play, By the way Silcone costs around $4,500 US and Saline is a little cheaper :P
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The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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scificanada
Expert Class
Posts: 411
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posted June 04, 2006 05:36 PM
silicone is nicer 
____________
Be a predator, not prey.
2006 Blue(the fastest colour) ZX14, Brock Ti Gen 3, Secondary Butterflies out, PCIII with Brock Map, Muzzy Frame Sliders.
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted June 04, 2006 06:10 PM
I surely hope that GTR-1400 will have that low end fixed
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted June 04, 2006 06:10 PM
Guys, No vac signal needed!!! That says it all. Oversize your throttlebodies and let the ecu control total air volume. These setups make more power and driveability is getting better and better now.
I agree for driveability the flat slides were smooth but with big throttlebodies that dont need a vac signal, we get big HP.
Its gotta be fuel or air or ign timing that is causing the problem. Fuel and air are easy to correct as is ignition timing.
So that leaves the air flow past the secondairy throttle blades. I'd be surprised if they are the problem.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted June 04, 2006 06:24 PM
Hi guys.........Does Dynojet make a PC3R for the 14? If so, (the R is for ignition control) throw 7 degrees of ignition advance at the motor on premium fuel of course, and see if that helps the mid range at all. It certainly did on my Muzzy 1270 project.
Cheers,
Cliff Randall
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 04, 2006 06:53 PM
long time no see, Cliff...
the 14 is a different beast than the 12R...
yes... PC3R is avail.
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jw
Novice Class
Posts: 81
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posted June 04, 2006 07:06 PM
 Edited By: jw on 4 Jun 2006 20:07
Looking over what Ivan said and Brocks posts, it really does look like Kawasaki leaned the fuel curve and retarded the ignition below 5K. A Busa below 5K looks like it would embarass a 14. NO FUN! Ivan was qouted somewhere saying that his TRE advances the ignition map a little but there is way more to be done.
It sounds like there is a full power ignition and fuel curve in the ecu that runs in warmup mode (doesn't seem reasonable), but that's just a guess. And accessing that map may not be possible outside of warmup. I think the crude way to do it is what Cliff said and get a PC3 ignition module and advance the igntion curve below 5K. AFTER you get the PC3 and download the fuller fuel curves from Brock. The elegant way is to reprogram the ECU or get a standalone system. Maybe Muzzy will be able to get together a EMS that's fairly affordable.
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted June 04, 2006 07:45 PM
Discussing theories about possible fixes for the power "problem" is starting to become very redundant.
I believe Brock, DynoJet, or Muzzys would have already released the "fix" if it was anything easy. (maybe I am giving them too much credit) Be patient and the guys that tune motorcycles for a living will be happy to sell us the answer once it is found
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 04, 2006 09:37 PM
Edited By: dubious on 4 Jun 2006 22:41
quote:
quote:
injection is good...
It wouldn't cost much. Silicone is cheap these days, and everyfucking thing else has us fucking our brains out !!
Dub: I could not resist, your post, I had to play, By the way Silcone costs around $4,500 US and Saline is a little cheaper :P
Right on 
Obviously this topic is becoming redundant... TM attention span is like .02 seconds.
LOL!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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