fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 01, 2006 01:06 PM
LOL
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FYYFF!!!
   
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted June 01, 2006 01:20 PM
quote:
Your Boss Hoss must be a little warm at times I would guess! Up here in the 'great white north' a little extra engine heat is appreciated on about 80% of our riding days. I've been frozen way more times while riding than cooked from engine heat!
The Bosses make HUGE amounts of hot air and you're correct, below 60 degrees F it can be a real blessing. My wife found that even at 45-50 degrees, summer riding apparel is fine on the freeway. Sitting in traffic they are nothing short of scorching! Many riders use a DPDT switch to reverse fan direction while stopped so they only melt by the radiant heat of the engine. Otherwise you are being cooked by radiant AND getting hit with a blast from a whole body heat gun. The 14 is a warm weather DREAM by comparison; I've only seen about 84 degrees so far this year on the 14 and my sweat had nothing to do with the heat of the bike.
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted June 01, 2006 02:40 PM
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies:
1) Stainless Steel does not rust. 
2) Header wrap will not hurt a SS header. I had 12K miles on my first Akrapovic before I rewrapped it and the header looked like new. Sure, there is some discoloration but you can't see hardly any of the header witrh plastics on the bike anyway, so who cares?
3) Header wrap WILL make you airbox cooler (20 degrees on my A1) which directly equates to HP gained. You CAN notice the difference on your legs.
4) Never wrap a Ti header. The titanium will superheat and turn into it's rare earth elements.
I wouldn't waste you time wrapping the stock header on the 14 if its anything like the 12's. The header pipes are welded and it's almost impossible to properly wrap the individual tubes.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted June 01, 2006 04:09 PM
quote:
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies:
1) Stainless Steel does not rust.
Right and I have a bridge I'll sell ya. Stainless is "corrosion resistant steel" for those who actually believe the above statement.
quote:
2) Header wrap will not hurt a SS header. I had 12K miles on my first Akrapovic before I rewrapped it and the header looked like new. Sure, there is some discoloration but you can't see hardly any of the header witrh plastics on the bike anyway, so who cares?
Depends on the type of stainless, Akrapovic doesn't seem to be a JC Whitney brand of pipe maker.
quote:
3) Header wrap WILL make you airbox cooler (20 degrees on my A1) which directly equates to HP gained. You CAN notice the difference on your legs.
Depending upon airbox location, airflow around the engine etc. that could well be true.
quote:
4) Never wrap a Ti header. The titanium will superheat and turn into it's rare earth elements.
At around 1600 degrees F Titanium starts to react with oxygen, the resulting oxadation results in a porus material that doesn't make anything good but hard sponges. 
quote:
I wouldn't waste you time wrapping the stock header on the 14 if its anything like the 12's. The header pipes are welded and it's almost impossible to properly wrap the individual tubes.
I don't know about this but I'm still waiting for my Muzzy Ti/Ti that should ship sometime this century.
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 01, 2006 04:37 PM
Sure, medical grade stainless may not ever rust, but the cheap crap that some aftermarket auto or motorcycle exhaust systems are made from are nowhere near high quality stainless. The terms "stainless" and "rust proof" are not necessarily synonymous.
Good points nonetheless bk.
What makes the 12R pipe so hard to wrap?
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted June 01, 2006 06:00 PM
quote:
quote:
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies:
1) Stainless Steel does not rust.
Right and I have a bridge I'll sell ya. Stainless is "corrosion resistant steel" for those who actually believe the above statement.
quote:
2) Header wrap will not hurt a SS header. I had 12K miles on my first Akrapovic before I rewrapped it and the header looked like new. Sure, there is some discoloration but you can't see hardly any of the header witrh plastics on the bike anyway, so who cares?
Depends on the type of stainless, Akrapovic doesn't seem to be a JC Whitney brand of pipe maker.
quote:
3) Header wrap WILL make you airbox cooler (20 degrees on my A1) which directly equates to HP gained. You CAN notice the difference on your legs.
Depending upon airbox location, airflow around the engine etc. that could well be true.
quote:
4) Never wrap a Ti header. The titanium will superheat and turn into it's rare earth elements.
At around 1600 degrees F Titanium starts to react with oxygen, the resulting oxadation results in a porus material that doesn't make anything good but hard sponges.
quote:
I wouldn't waste you time wrapping the stock header on the 14 if its anything like the 12's. The header pipes are welded and it's almost impossible to properly wrap the individual tubes.
I don't know about this but I'm still waiting for my Muzzy Ti/Ti that should ship sometime this century.
I know who the engineer is on this blog. Thanks dam good information.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted June 02, 2006 07:43 AM
Okay, lets quantify things:
1) I am talking about true, high grade stainless steel such as that found on a quality pipe. Specifically a pipe such as an Akrapovic. I can't speak to the cheap shit because I don't buy or use cheap shit.
2) What makes the factory header (I'm talking the zx-12r here, I have NOT had my hands on a zx-14 factory header yet) difficult to wrap is the fact that the header is a one piece welded unit. The tubes are so close together and not movable that IMO it is an exercise in futility to try to wrap it.
The difference being that an aftermarket pipe such as an Akrapovic has four detachable header pipes which allows you to get a clean wrap and then put it all back together again.
3) If you do not like the idea of header wrap, consider Jet-Hot coating. It looks great, is tough as nails and lasts forever BUT like powder coating you have to ensure you have a knowledgeable tech doing the work. Get it on the places where the tubes pressure fit and you are screwed.
If I had a zx-14, I would be waiting for Akrapovic or Arata to come out with a pipe for it (which WILL happen) . Yes, either is expensive but you get what you pay for.
Here is an explanation on real stainless steel (quoted text not authored by me):
Metallurgical engineer Michael L. Free of the University of Utah offers this explanation:
Stainless steel remains stainless, or does not rust, because of the interaction between its alloying elements and the environment. Stainless steel contains iron, chromium, manganese, silicon, carbon and, in many cases, significant amounts of nickel and molybdenum. These elements react with oxygen from water and air to form a very thin, stable film that consists of such corrosion products as metal oxides and hydroxides. Chromium plays a dominant role in reacting with oxygen to form this corrosion product film. In fact, all stainless steels by definition contain at least 10 percent chromium.
The presence of the stable film prevents additional corrosion by acting as a barrier that limits oxygen and water access to the underlying metal surface. Because the film forms so readily and tightly, even only a few atomic layers reduce the rate of corrosion to very low levels. The fact that the film is much thinner than the wavelength of light makes it difficult to see without the aid of modern instruments. Thus, although the steel is corroded on the atomic level, it appears stainless. Common inexpensive steel, in contrast, reacts with oxygen from water to form a relatively unstable iron oxide/hydroxide film that continues to grow with time and exposure to water and air. As such, this film, otherwise known as rust, achieves sufficient thickness to make it easily observable soon after exposure to water and air.
In summary, stainless steel does not rust because it is sufficiently reactive to protect itself from further attack by forming a passive corrosion product layer. (Other important metals such as titanium and aluminum also rely on passive film formation for their corrosion resistance.)
Because of its durability and aesthetic appeal, stainless steel is used in a wide variety of products, ranging from eating utensils to bank vaults to kitchen sinks.
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted June 04, 2006 05:10 PM
I've been working on a steel factory metallic lab
and during a summer vocation of the corrosion expert
I took care of the on going tests for a few weeks
Naturally they were accelerated tests in a harch environment
eg. a warm salty, moisty chamber with air cicrlulation
Stainless does corrode - the speed varies depending on quality
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