aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 03, 2006 06:58 PM
ZX-12r to ZX-14 - Is it really all that?
This is a question for those of you who've gone from a ZX-12r to a ZX-14. Is it REALLY worth twice what you could pick up a nice, used 12r for??
Okay, so it's new. And I hear it's smoother. Is it noticeably more comfortable for a day tour? Does it get THAT much better mileage? Does it handle THAT much better??
There are clean, used 12rs flowing like water. The damn things sell like heat in the desert in the best of circumstances, and now that the 14s are out it's a really a buyer's market -- and really very tempting.
Is the 14 really that much better? Really?? How...
  
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Tool Man
Needs a job
Posts: 4493
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posted May 03, 2006 07:12 PM
Today's paper or yesterdays news?
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The banks are failing..
The banks are failing...
Invest in Ammo
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 03, 2006 08:09 PM
Yes, it really is that much better. I owned a ZX12R back in 2000 and now a ZX14. The two bikes are much different. If better handling, more power, and redesigned looks aren't good reasons to buy a new sportbike, what are?
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted May 03, 2006 09:04 PM
I'm glad you said redesigned looks because they certainly aren't better looks than the 12R. Nothing looks better than an A model 12R.
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pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
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posted May 03, 2006 10:55 PM
The fit and finish of the A model 12R left something to be desired imo.
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 04, 2006 06:35 AM
quote:
I'm glad you said redesigned looks because they certainly aren't better looks than the 12R. Nothing looks better than an A model 12R.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I much prefer the looks of the 14 over the ZX12R (especially the A model). I always thought my 2000 12R looked awkward. That ram air snorkel looked like an afterthought. Kawasaki cleaned that up in 2003 and make it look more integrated. There is no question, in my mind, that the ZX14 is miles ahead of the A model ZX12Rs.
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swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted May 04, 2006 06:40 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm glad you said redesigned looks because they certainly aren't better looks than the 12R. Nothing looks better than an A model 12R.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I much prefer the looks of the 14 over the ZX12R (especially the A model). I always thought my 2000 12R looked awkward. That ram air snorkel looked like an afterthought. Kawasaki cleaned that up in 2003 and make it look more integrated. There is no question, in my mind, that the ZX14 is miles ahead of the A model ZX12Rs.
I agree!
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
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posted May 04, 2006 08:11 AM
So does I.
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FYYFF!!!
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brain
Expert Class
Posts: 136
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posted May 04, 2006 08:47 AM
It was actually 02 when Kawai made the biggest changes.Since then the only change worth mentioning is radial mounted brakes i believe in 04
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 04, 2006 12:46 PM
You are right. The change was made for the '02 model. I must have been '03 when those bikes actually made it to the showrooms 
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted May 04, 2006 03:41 PM
quote:
quote:
That ram air snorkel looked like an afterthought. Kawasaki cleaned that up in 2003 and make it look more integrated.
Form followed function in 2000. If you read the silver book that was sent out to the people who purchased a 12 in 2000, it should make sense.
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 04, 2006 05:57 PM
I still have my copy of the silver book but I have never taken the time to read it. I do know that the snorkel looked odd in '00-'01 and looked much better from '02-'05.
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
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posted May 04, 2006 06:14 PM
I like the snorkel on the A series myself.
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 06, 2006 11:11 AM
quote:
Today's paper or yesterdays news?
They're both eventually going to end up in the bottom of the bird cage...
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 06, 2006 11:17 AM
 Edited By: TJ on 6 May 2006 12:23
quote:
quote:
Today's paper or yesterdays news?
They're both eventually going to end up in the bottom of the bird cage...
There is no question that any bike you will ever buy will eventually become outdated. There is no way around that. The original question in this thread was if the 14 is really that much better than the 12R to justify paying twice as much.
The answer to that question is......it depends. There are so many factors that go into choosing a motorcycle, only you will know if the bike is right for you. It was worth the extra money to me but I can afford it. Many of us on this board bought the bike the second it hit showroom floors. We all know we paid much more than if we had waited 6 months. To someone that may be tight on funds (most of us have been there are some point), the ZX14 may be out of reach. Others could very well afford to buy it but choose not to. Buy whatever makes you happy and enjoy. Like every other bike, the ZX14 isn't for everyone.
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 06, 2006 11:31 AM
I'm with the guys who think the looks of the A model have yet to be bested. The 14 made me shudder the first time I saw it. Its looks have grown on me a bit - but sorry, it's still ugly and fast don't cover ugly.
I can pick up a nice, clean A model for the middle 5's -- fully HALF of what a new 14 would cost me. Plus, with the new 14 I'm looking at instant depreciation AND the very, very probable prospect of the Hyper Busa hitting the market soon resulting in these new 14s dropping in value and selling like crap, just as with the 12r.
So I'm wondering if the 14 is really such a wise choice...
I've not ridden a 14 yet, of course, so I don't know what it's all about. But I do know how great a bike the 12r is. That's why I'm asking those of you who've gone from a 12r to a 14 if it's REALLY worth it - is it twice the bike a 12r is.
The 12r is barely slower, but I'm not a drag racer. The 12r is a little harder to work on, but I'm patient (the one huge plus of the 14 is that it looks as if it'll be a whole lot easier to get to the valves). The 12r is a little more rough around the edges, but isn't that its charm?
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 06, 2006 11:40 AM
quote:
The answer to that question is......it depends. There are so many factors that go into choosing a motorcycle, only you will know if the bike is right for you. It was worth the extra money to me but I can afford it. Many of us on this board bought the bike the second it hit showroom floors. We all know we paid much more than if we had waited 6 months. To someone that may be tight on funds (most of us have been there are some point), the ZX14 may be out of reach. Others could very well afford to buy it but choose not to. Buy whatever makes you happy and enjoy. Like every other bike, the ZX14 isn't for everyone.
That's what I'm trying to do - to quantify the difference. And I'll only know if the 14 is right for me by getting some seat time on one - not likely to happen until all the hubbub has blown over and they're more readily accessible.
So until I can get skin on paint I'm occupying myself by pondering the unknown in comparison with the known. But so far this is pointing me right back to a 12r...
YMMV, of course, which is why I'm asking for opinions. 
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 06, 2006 12:39 PM
I understand your thought process. Unfortunately, you are trying to quantify something that cannot be quantified. If you tried to measure power/weight for the dollar, you may be best off with a $3,000 1993 CBR900RR (chances are it would even come with a pipe/shock/etc..). If you want handling and allure at a cheap price, get a 1996 Ducati 916. Raw power and comfort, early '90s ZX-11. And on, and on.
Comparing a new [fill in the blank] to a 6 year old used [fll in the blank] really is like trying to compare apples to oranges even if it was the same model line.
"Worth" is all relative. Some people may think a $60K car is far too much to pay for any car. Others will tell you it is worth every penny. In my case, the $12,500 I spent to get the first ZX14 from my dealer was worth every cent I paid. Anyone that says money cannot buy happiness, does not own a ZX14
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 06, 2006 02:38 PM
quote:
I understand your thought process. Unfortunately, you are trying to quantify something that cannot be quantified. If you tried to measure power/weight for the dollar, you may be best off with a $3,000 1993 CBR900RR (chances are it would even come with a pipe/shock/etc..). If you want handling and allure at a cheap price, get a 1996 Ducati 916. Raw power and comfort, early '90s ZX-11. And on, and on.
TJ - I do appreciate your input so please don't take this the wrong way, but you're missing what I'm aiming for.
Also, anything can be quantified - even an emotional issue. But let me use a different word; balance. I'm balancing the benefits of one thing against the benefits of another. So it isn't purely power/weight/handling for the dollar, it's more like a good old-fashioned pro/con list.
And because I'm balancing the benefits of one thing against the benefits of another, it isn't an apples to oranges comparison since I'm not doing a direct comparison of things, but rather, the benefits of one thing against another and benefits aren't apples -or- oranges.
But you're right in that the end result will go toward establishing relative worth. So despite the emotional "wanna gotta hava" of a new 14, I'm not convinced at this point that it's worth having. So I'm asking for input from those who have walked the walk.
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girlee
Expert Class
Wile E. 1 - SV650S 2002
Posts: 325
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posted May 06, 2006 03:34 PM
quote:
I understand your thought process. Unfortunately, you are trying to quantify something that cannot be quantified. If you tried to measure power/weight for the dollar, you may be best off with a $3,000 1993 CBR900RR (chances are it would even come with a pipe/shock/etc..). If you want handling and allure at a cheap price, get a 1996 Ducati 916. Raw power and comfort, early '90s ZX-11. And on, and on.
Comparing a new [fill in the blank] to a 6 year old used [fll in the blank] really is like trying to compare apples to oranges even if it was the same model line.
"Worth" is all relative. Some people may think a $60K car is far too much to pay for any car. Others will tell you it is worth every penny. In my case, the $12,500 I spent to get the first ZX14 from my dealer was worth every cent I paid. Anyone that says money cannot buy happiness, does not own a ZX14
++++1 !!
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girlee
Expert Class
Wile E. 1 - SV650S 2002
Posts: 325
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posted May 06, 2006 03:37 PM
quote:
quote:
I understand your thought process. Unfortunately, you are trying to quantify something that cannot be quantified. If you tried to measure power/weight for the dollar, you may be best off with a $3,000 1993 CBR900RR (chances are it would even come with a pipe/shock/etc..). If you want handling and allure at a cheap price, get a 1996 Ducati 916. Raw power and comfort, early '90s ZX-11. And on, and on.
Comparing a new [fill in the blank] to a 6 year old used [fll in the blank] really is like trying to compare apples to oranges even if it was the same model line.
"Worth" is all relative. Some people may think a $60K car is far too much to pay for any car. Others will tell you it is worth every penny. In my case, the $12,500 I spent to get the first ZX14 from my dealer was worth every cent I paid. Anyone that says money cannot buy happiness, does not own a ZX14
I agree worth every cent ::: Tool Man we in Vegas baby
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 06, 2006 03:50 PM
You can't quantify anecdotal evidence. That is the nature of math. You can measure (quantify) things like horsepower and weight. Things like visual appeal and worth to a particular person (anecdotal) cannot be quantified.
In raw numbers, the ZX14 is superior to the ZX12R. If you have to add price into the equation, that is where we go to apples/oranges. Any used bike is going to be cheap in comparison to a new bike. In the end, if you don't like the bike, none of the numbers matter.
You asked for opinions. I think you would be hard pressed to find many (if there are any) ZX14 owners that have regretted the purchase.
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aughtsix
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted May 06, 2006 05:11 PM
Well I don't want to get bogged down on semantics but, again, you can quantify anything, including anecdotal evidence, by assigning to it a value. But that's not the point of the thread so I'll leave it at that.
And just to be clear -- Yes, I asked for opinions, but not from just ANY ZX-14 owner and not just about anything. I'm looking for opinions from those who have gone from a ZX-12r to a ZX-14 and why they prefer their new 14. Only.
I'm not looking for debate. I'm not looking for opinions from those who haven't gone from a 12r to a 14. I'm not looking for cheerleading or fanboyism. I'm also NOT looking for someone to say they regret the purchase - I'm only looking for folks to say why they prefer the 14 over their old 12r. That's all, and that shouldn't be too difficult. 
You meet that spec so thanks again for your opinion.
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