zermatt
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted April 30, 2006 06:42 PM
Roll-ons
Ok, I'm going to try to say this without starting a HUGE argument...
Was out riding today with some friendly guys on various different bikes. One was an '05 (K5?) GSXR-1000 that I'd guess was lighter than stock because of it's carbon-fiber wheels and a few items deleted (very clean bike!). It also had a pipe and PC, and I'd guess the rider was probably somewhere around 70-90lbs lighter than me. We did a few roll-ons from about 60mph in 2nd, 3rd, and 6th gear. In both 2nd and 3rd it wasn't even close to being a contest - the GSXR walked me hard! In 6th it was close for a couple thousand rpm's, but once the gixxer hit it's power band, he moved away.
I know, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison *at all*, but I just thought I'd share my experience. No, I wasn't happy with the results, but I'm man enough to understand that a lighter bike with a lighter rider combined with HP that probably challenges my stock '14 will completely spank me  .
Oh, and before all of the arguments start. Lighten up! 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
  
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted April 30, 2006 06:50 PM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 30 Apr 2006 19:51
....ya' sucha' loser!!!!
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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Michael Lee
Zone Head
Purchase Ivy
Posts: 729
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posted April 30, 2006 06:54 PM
Kawasaki has placed in your lap one of the most powerful two wheeled machines of all times
Before you attempt to race anyone else . . . . Learn how ta find "your" powerband
Its not going ta be as simple as 'A Twist of the Wrist' and the Zuks are gone
Clutch tha bastard and get some horsepower to tha ground
Then call if ya wanna keep racing 'skinny fuckers'
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted April 30, 2006 07:01 PM
quote:
I'm man enough to understand that a lighter bike with a lighter rider combined with HP that probably challenges my stock '14 will completely spank me .
This is why I bought a Boss Hoss several years ago, I was 370 lb. and my wife weighed "over" 200. The Boss was the only bike that would haul us and if anything it would get BETTER traction because of our weight. Now that I'm in the low 200's and my wife around 130 any bike can haul us around. For these sport bikes just a little weigh makes a BIG difference, why else are the kings of drag racing in the 130-150 weight range . . . I'll never see the low side of 200 so I'll just have to live with loosing to some little punk kid, SFW.
I'm still delighted I bought a 14, with the same rider "out of the crate" they would be hard to beat!
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Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted April 30, 2006 07:06 PM
I believe "roll-on" races are worthless. Outside of the weight factors that Matt lists, bikes are geared differently both within the transmission and in the final drive. I can see value in "rolling start" races that help mitigate the difference between launching skills. But comparing 4th gear acceleration (or however the comparison was structured) must be nearly worthless.
As a caveat: The intrinsic flaws that exists in "roll-on" camparisons exists when you win as well 
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 30, 2006 07:25 PM
Matt i don't mean for this to sound hard ...But stop racing bikes that are modded to hell with riders that weigh 80 pounds less than you.... Also the guys you are trying to race have some time on their bikes ,,,YOU DON"T ....get some more seat time you will be ok....Going out on any stock bike against a modded bike you are going to get your ass handed to you in a big hurry .....Unless your a light weight killer rider
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted April 30, 2006 07:32 PM
Basic physics lesson: it's power to weight ratio, not ultimate power that wins every time. If all other factors are equal. (Which they seldom are.)
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Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
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posted April 30, 2006 07:47 PM
The 14 is just a hyper-touring bike fer kripe sakes. You have no business messin with a hyper-sportbike.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 30, 2006 07:47 PM
To all new zx14 owners ...... I saw this coming and have posted about this before ..
Each and every zx14 owner has a big red target painted on his back....Everyone with a zx10, busa,gixxer and R1 is going to be hunting you down ..They are not coming at you with a stock bike and they have had time to get the best out of their cycle... You are not Ricky Gadson and will never be with out ton of hours of racing and track time ... 90% of the new zx14 owners will never be racers, Just your avg riders..... That leaves 10% that have raced bikes and will race the zx14... This riders have lots of racing skills and will have no problem winning races with the zx14 ... Don't let these riders goat you into a race till your ready and just because you got the most powerfull bike ever built don't go trying to prove it till you know what the hell you are doing ...You are going to read on other website about zx14 falling to Busa Gixxers Ect for sometime to come ,so get ready to be bashed and trashed and made fun of......Wait year and the tables will turn when the bikes get in the hands or racers or the new owner get their skill levels up to par...Untill then keep your cool, good things are coming ....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Pilgrim
Novice Class
Posts: 83
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posted April 30, 2006 07:53 PM
quote:
Ok, I'm going to try to say this without starting a HUGE argument...
Was out riding today with some friendly guys on various different bikes. One was an '05 (K5?) GSXR-1000 that I'd guess was lighter than stock because of it's carbon-fiber wheels and a few items deleted (very clean bike!). It also had a pipe and PC, and I'd guess the rider was probably somewhere around 70-90lbs lighter than me. We did a few roll-ons from about 60mph in 2nd, 3rd, and 6th gear. In both 2nd and 3rd it wasn't even close to being a contest - the GSXR walked me hard! In 6th it was close for a couple thousand rpm's, but once the gixxer hit it's power band, he moved away.
I know, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison *at all*, but I just thought I'd share my experience. No, I wasn't happy with the results, but I'm man enough to understand that a lighter bike with a lighter rider combined with HP that probably challenges my stock '14 will completely spank me .
Oh, and before all of the arguments start. Lighten up!
Hey Zermatt, You are a lot bigger man than those two chumps on the other posts. Wish you hadn't told the story just yet, I still wanted their smart mouth money, they dreamed up I ride an 600, and not very good at that, their money would have been fun to spend. For everyone else reading our stupid crap, I'm sorry, I should have never responded to them in the first place, I still stand by my original post, that's what I saw.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 30, 2006 08:30 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 30 Apr 2006 21:34
Pilgrim this is your post word for word ...
Average time at the drag strip with good 170 lbs rider 6:85 @ 113 mph. The stock R-1 was running 6:60 @ 113mph. The 14 will be pretty fast on the highway but don't go to the strip.
Sorry Folks, just the facts
Sorry you left out the fact that later that night he ran 6.60 .... Here is what he posted /// read it !!!!
The real story is that yes the 1st night one of the runs was 6.85 @ 113, but later that night
the bike went 6.60 but was very hard to keep the front end down. The next night
Thrusday night we went back out with a strap off the old 12 and ran a 6.43 @ 116.53.
My son rides the bike he is 180 lbs he had trouble getting 3rd gear since this bike
will run 110 in 2nd gear, the e.t. was not hurt much @ a 6.44 @ 106.
Best 2 3.30 and 6.60 together was 6.37 @ 117.22. The best 3.30 mile hr 89.53.
Only the 2nd night out I believe with a swing arm 64 inch, a pipe and a lower gear
this bike will run low 5.80 @ 122.
So pilgrim you didn't post just the facts ... You posted what you wanted to see and not what really happened on the night you saw him run ....
Now would you please do us all a favor and go way ... You posted a few posts ago you where done , now prove it....
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted April 30, 2006 08:48 PM
haha
6.80s is slow.
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Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
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posted April 30, 2006 09:12 PM
Fat guy + fat bike like cocky fat caveman to sabre tooth tiger.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted April 30, 2006 11:51 PM
So the Gixer rider was 90lbs lighter than you and his bike was 70lbs lighter than your ZX-14. It's not really surprising that the Suzuki pulled away, lighter by the equivalent of an eleven and a half stone pillion passenger.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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chriscollins
Novice Class
Posts: 91
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posted May 01, 2006 02:56 AM
Get them up to about a buck forty and see whos roll on wins? that Gsxr will be buffeting all over the road from your wake. they are two very different bikes.
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted May 01, 2006 03:19 AM
ok... the 14 might offer better wind protection but with aerodynamices its frontal area.
Just a guess here , but Im going to say that the Zx14 has more frontal area than a GSXR.
I do wish I could find someone to race.
quote:
Get them up to about a buck forty and see whos roll on wins? that Gsxr will be buffeting all over the road from your wake. they are two very different bikes.
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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EASY
Expert Class
Posts: 183
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posted May 01, 2006 03:20 AM
I had that happen to me once when I bought a new GS 1150 Suzuki. It was a frendially meeting between freinds and we just wanted to compare gear to gear roll ons. Neither one of us was really trying to "beat" the other. He had a Katana and, like Matt I had my butt handed to me---being an avid street (for money) racer in Memphis, I was really dissapointed. Then later I found he had dropped two teeth on the front sproket------
These new liter bikes (Suzuki and Kawasaki) are true beasts and in any kind of street race that weight differance is going to be hard to overcome--
Later results with the Katana were much different. You never know what the other guy has done to his bike.
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted May 01, 2006 03:22 AM
quote:
I believe "roll-on" races are worthless. Outside of the weight factors that Matt lists, bikes are geared differently both within the transmission and in the final drive. I can see value in "rolling start" races that help mitigate the difference between launching skills. But comparing 4th gear acceleration (or however the comparison was structured) must be nearly worthless.
As a caveat: The intrinsic flaws that exists in "roll-on" camparisons exists when you win as well
I - on the contrary - am very keen to see roll-on comparisons 14 vs others
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted May 01, 2006 03:30 AM
First off when you roll race.... you go from a certain mph... NOT gear selection.
So if you go from a 40mph roll..... Id be in 1st gear. Maybe if you're going from 90mph... go from 2nd.
If my bike starts to make power at 9,000rpm.... Im going to try to leave as close to that as possilble on a roll race.
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted May 01, 2006 03:32 AM
And if Im not mistaken.. those old FZR1000s with the 20 valve head are still very fast rollon bike from 50mph...
____________
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EASY
Expert Class
Posts: 183
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posted May 01, 2006 03:32 AM
Me too---I think this tells you the way the bike will accerate (not wfo) in everyday street riding.
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Pilgrim
Novice Class
Posts: 83
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posted May 01, 2006 04:48 AM
quote:
Pilgrim this is your post word for word ...
Average time at the drag strip with good 170 lbs rider 6:85 @ 113 mph. The stock R-1 was running 6:60 @ 113mph. The 14 will be pretty fast on the highway but don't go to the strip.
Sorry Folks, just the facts
Sorry you left out the fact that later that night he ran 6.60 .... Here is what he posted /// read it !!!!
The real story is that yes the 1st night one of the runs was 6.85 @ 113, but later that night
the bike went 6.60 but was very hard to keep the front end down. The next night
Thrusday night we went back out with a strap off the old 12 and ran a 6.43 @ 116.53.
My son rides the bike he is 180 lbs he had trouble getting 3rd gear since this bike
will run 110 in 2nd gear, the e.t. was not hurt much @ a 6.44 @ 106.
Best 2 3.30 and 6.60 together was 6.37 @ 117.22. The best 3.30 mile hr 89.53.
Only the 2nd night out I believe with a swing arm 64 inch, a pipe and a lower gear
this bike will run low 5.80 @ 122.
So pilgrim you didn't post just the facts ... You posted what you wanted to see and not what really happened on the night you saw him run ....
Now would you please do us all a favor and go way ... You posted a few posts ago you where done , now prove it....
If he said he ran 6:60 then is guess he did, but we saw 5 runs and they were all in the 80's also he was not showing his time on the finish line, so the only way we could get the time slip was to be in the other lane and get our slips with his time on it. So this means he went 5 runs in the 80's and the one and only last run after we left in the 60's, thats a pretty good gain wouldn't you say. Yeah I'm trying to leave.
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted May 01, 2006 04:57 AM
Yeah - I quickly realized that modern liter bikes with a few mods and light riders are not good roll-on comparison candidates 
Oh, and I would have tried the 120+ or 140+ roll-on, but anytime I got above 120 everyone was WAAAAAYYYYY behind me. Sorry Pilgrim
It was a really great day anyway. Great bunch of guys and gals, perfect weather, good food... fun was had by all!!! And I made about 10 new friends
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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famous1
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted May 01, 2006 05:06 AM
roll on race...lol
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 01, 2006 05:09 AM
Matt, TB is 100% right; you'll never beat a liter bike in a roll-on unless....you're well into your poweband to start with. Yesterday, I was on my wifes R1 and I walked the 14 easliy, only because we were in the same gear, but when I raced the 14 again, this time when it was in the right gear, I lost...and the R1 is no slouch (not a 10R, but still) . I walked a Busa and a K1200S yesterday on the R1, only because I was in the right gear and they weren't. I don't think that gear for gear matched, my 14 could even run a Busa -- remember that a 14 won't be happy until it's at least at 7K+ for a roll on race...roll-on races are not an indication of anything important. When you want to see what a bike will do, you need to put it on the track, period. That's the only thing that counts and the only way to tell what's what. There have been enough races on the 14 to prove it's now the top bike in drag racing. The litre bikes make great power at 5K and have a long way to go till redline. Power to weight is a huge factor. Pilgrim is wrong about the ZX14 though, no stock R1 will beat it in a drag race, given that you have equally matched and skilled riders on both. His attestation to the facts may have been correct, but his statement as to the "way it is"...is totally unfounded and was desgined to elicit exactly the types of responses he got from this crowd. If he didn't understand that, then he's a bigger idiot than I originally thought, because coming in here and making unfounded, biased statements like that will surely get one into a pissing contests, and THAT"S THE WAY IT REALLY IS!
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FYYFF!!!
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