cls
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Posts: 410
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posted April 25, 2006 08:07 AM
Torque below 5K?
Can anybody give me a definitive, comparative answer to the low-end torque question? Is it an easy fix, if it's not what it should bew? Anyubody seen/heard of a PC/exhaust fix? Between the torque issue and the engine heat issue, I may be backing off the throttle on this whole thing a bit. Answers before it's time to buy, please?
Thanks.
  
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 25, 2006 08:15 AM
When you change the exhaust, be prepared to lose TQ below 4K on this bike unless you have a ton of back pressure (not good for high end power). Not much to do about that. Cams /heads cylinder/pistons would fix the problem (if that's a problem for you). My FJR pulled harder than my Busa did at 2-4K, but the Busa would continue till 300KM/H at about the same rate all the way up from 60. Can't say that for the FJR. So, if its low end TQ you want, clutch it, mod the engine or buy a Busa.
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tool man
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posted April 25, 2006 08:31 AM
The flat spot is not that much of an issse for me as the tradeoff is it pulls like nothing else up top
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 25, 2006 08:34 AM
She really pulls that hard eh? (can ya tell I'm Canadian -- eh?)
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supra5677
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posted April 25, 2006 08:39 AM
try advancing the timing..4-5 degrees
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supra5677
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posted April 25, 2006 08:42 AM
or you could change your cam timing to something like 103/100
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D
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posted April 25, 2006 11:13 AM
Or install a Torque Button 
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cls
Expert Class
Posts: 410
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posted April 25, 2006 11:19 AM
I'll try the PC, exhaust, and ignition advance/retard to see what that does. BTW, I just saw mine. They're in Atlanta/the SE! Picking her up tomorrow.
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tool man
Needs a job
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posted April 25, 2006 11:24 AM
quote:
She really pulls that hard eh? (can ya tell I'm Canadian -- eh?)[/quote
Ya eh Pretty damn good for a stock bike. Prolly like your old mod'ed busa by the #s you posted.
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 25, 2006 11:33 AM
Hopefuly better...Busa lost a substantial amount of low end grunt with those mods...but I know the 14 will handle way better -- eh? Supposed to see mine tomrrow, so they say 
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ninja rider
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posted April 25, 2006 01:12 PM
 Edited By: ninja rider on 25 Apr 2006 14:35
This is a repitition of my post under "14vsBusa":
The flat spot beneath 4000 rpm seems to be a really bad one. I spoke to one of the german intro test riders yesterday and he mentioned that it had very little grunt beneath 5000 rpm. for such a large engine. If you're in 6th gear there is no such thing as a quick overtake with just a twist of the wrist. Instead you have to downshift at least two or three gears. The Japanese engineers said they made the bike this way so that it wouldn't be too intimidating or dangerous for relatively inexperienced riders (This seems a load of B.S. to me as if some young riders wouldn't be tempted to find out what te bike has to offer in the higher rpm regions)
The 14 will probably be challenged in high gear low speed roll-ons by quite a few liter bikes as it doesn't seem to have a busa like torque at 2000rpm in 6th gear. The bike really seems to be restricted in the lower rpm range. (maybe and hopefully this can be undone rather easilly - I don't know)
Above 6000 rpm it seems to be blindingly fast though and keeps pulling in an astonishing way far beyond 155 mph. It reaches it speedo limit of 186 mph (299 kph) already in fifth and keeps pulling strongly in 6 th.
Even at those speeds the bike is as stable as a train. Only in the twisties with the pilot in "race mode" the bike feels a little wobly due to the comfort oriented front and rear spring setup.
Surprinsingly the bike seems to be incredibly agile at low speed and really enables the rider to filter through city traffic or make narrow U-turns in a way it seems almost unreal for a bike of this size.
Ninja Rider (sitting on the fence)
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famous1
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Posts: 402
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posted April 25, 2006 01:33 PM
quote:
This is a repitition of my post under "14vsBusa":
The flat spot beneath 4000 rpm seems to be a really bad one. I spoke to one of the german intro test riders yesterday and he mentioned that it had very little grunt beneath 5000 rpm. for such a large engine. If you're in 6th gear there is no such thing as a quick overtake with just a twist of the wrist. Instead you have to downshift at least two or three gears. The Japanese engineers said they made the bike this way so that it wouldn't be to intimidating or dangerous for relatively inexperienced riders (This seems a load of B.S. to me as if some young riders wouldn't be tempted to find out what te bike has to offer in the higher rpm regions)
The 14 will probably be challenged in high gear low speed roll-ons buy quite a few liter bikes as it doesn't seem to have a busa like torque at 2000rpm in 6th gear. The bike really seems to be restricted in the lower rpm range. (maybe and hopefully this can be undone rather easilly - I don't know)
Above 6000 rpm it seems to be blindingly fast though and keeps pulling in an astonishing way far beyond 155 mph. It reaches it speedo limit of 186 mph (299 kph) already in fifth and keeps pulling strongly in 6 th.
Even at those speeds the bike is as stable as a train. Only in the twisties with the pilot in "race mode" the bike feels a little wobly due to the comfort oriented front and rear spring setup.
Surprinsingly the bike seems to be incredibly agile at low speed and really enables the rider to filter through city traffic or make narrow U-turns in a way it seems almost unreal for a bike of this size.
Ninja Rider (sitting on the fence)
note to self:
do not race litre bikes from 2000 rpm's in sixth gear.......... check.
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 25, 2006 03:55 PM
Duhhhh...2k roll on in 6th? My HD will will away faster than my 10R at 2k
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Drowland
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posted April 29, 2006 01:58 PM
Yes this bike is dead under 4 k WTF? Whats the fix.. My 04 10R w/ mods would kill this bike until 170 mph.. Whats the fix.. Need to get this pig a rolling.
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swft
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Full throttle!
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posted April 29, 2006 02:08 PM
Maybe you should call up Ivan and 'put a deposit' on a TRE...
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 29, 2006 03:10 PM
Drowland, the bike IS NOT dead under 4K...it's just smooth power delivery is all (way better in the corners too due to more manageable power). I have both the 10R and the 14, sold the Busa. I can tell you that a stock 10R will NEVER catch a stock 14 in a drag race (not even in the trap). A roll-on in 2nd or 3rd at 100 MPH -- 14 will kick your 10R's ass all the way down the block and leave ya cryin'. I was out today on my 14 with only 300 miles on her...geared down to 3rd at 100 and hit around 160 and the fucker lifted at 10K like a litre bike...the 14 is seriously quick dude...my 10R is one of the faster ones around, but this thing is way faster and pulls a lot harder at all RPM's. I've been track / street riding for over 30 years and have owned at least that many bikes...this thing takes the cake.
I was out with my buddy today and he was on his 05 Busa (bone stock). I pulled on him like he was standing still at 100 from 3rd all the way up. We changed bikes and he did the same to me. Not only that, but the 14 soaks up the bumpy roads way better than the Busa. His exact words after getting off the 14 were: "Fuck man, this things feels like a piece of crap after riding your 14". I can also assure you that the beloved Busa not only drives like crap next to a 14, but can't keep up to one either.
There are so many things that seperate this bike from the rest, I can't begin to tell you...but it brakes like an R1, shifts smoother than an R1 and the revs climb like nothing you've ever seen on a bike before. Until you ride one and put it through it's paces, you won't truly understand what you're dealing with. You won't want a FIX for the less-than-Busa- low end grunt. Busa's won't catch this thing.-- PERIOD. OK? 'nuf said. Now go ride!
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Tool Man
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posted April 29, 2006 03:54 PM
quote:
Drowland, the bike IS NOT dead under 4K...it's just smooth power delivery is all (way better in the corners too due to more manageable power). I have both the 10R and the 14, sold the Busa. I can tell you that a stock 10R will NEVER catch a stock 14 in a drag race (not even in the trap). A roll-on in 2nd or 3rd at 100 MPH -- 14 will kick your 10R's ass all the way down the block and leave ya cryin'. I was out today on my 14 with only 300 miles on her...geared down to 3rd at 100 and hit around 160 and the fucker lifted at 10K like a litre bike...the 14 is seriously quick dude...my 10R is one of the faster ones around, but this thing is way faster and pulls a lot harder at all RPM's. I've been track / street riding for over 30 years and have owned at least that many bikes...this thing takes the cake.
I was out with my buddy today and he was on his 05 Busa (bone stock). I pulled on him like he was standing still at 100 from 3rd all the way up. We changed bikes and he did the same to me. Not only that, but the 14 soaks up the bumpy roads way better than the Busa. His exact words after getting off the 14 were: "Fuck man, this things feels like a piece of crap after riding your 14". I can also assure you that the beloved Busa not only drives like crap next to a 14, but can't keep up to one either.
There are so many things that seperate this bike from the rest, I can't begin to tell you...but it brakes like an R1, shifts smoother than an R1 and the revs climb like nothing you've ever seen on a bike before. Until you ride one and put it through it's paces, you won't truly understand what you're dealing with. You won't want a FIX for the less-than-Busa- low end grunt. Busa's won't catch this thing.-- PERIOD. OK? 'nuf said. Now go ride!
I could not agree more Fastest .
I love this thing. what a peice of machinery.
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nightmare
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ACP Racing
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posted April 29, 2006 04:41 PM
I heard a rumor that said that a p/c would fix the problem but a lot of people say that there will have to be a cpu designed to bypass the progamm that slows the bike down in the low end!
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Drowland
Zone Head
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posted April 29, 2006 05:54 PM
Excuse me fellas I took delivery today and broke her in right.. ON the back tire. Now my 10r had full ti system, pc, thin gasket. And no way in hell the pig of a bike would eat it up unless we are running over 170 mph. Its a turd under 4 k. I like the bike don' t get me wrong but it needs some serious mods and I tell you what I hate is the fact that this bike has so many restrictions on it thats its not even funny.. And no it does not pull low or as hard as a busa under 4 K rpm. Not my 2000 busa with full muzzy and tuned by Lee's performance. I had my friend thats a endurance Wera National Champion working on the suspension trying to get it dialed in. Got to get the mods soon or I'm going to go crazy.. And yes it needs a damper.. So this what I have planned so far. Hyperpro active damper, BMC race filter, full ti exhaust, Pc, ignition advancer, braided lines.. Lets keep our fingers cross this bike will wake up and shine....
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 29, 2006 06:06 PM
I did say that a Busa would outpull it in the very low end...you think your 10r can eat this 14? You must have a dead motor...no offence
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Drowland
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posted April 29, 2006 06:14 PM
Wel lets say my 10 wasn't stock and it had over 20 rwhp over stock. So we arn't comparing apples to apples now. I did get to race my buddy on his GSXR1000 (modded to hell) and yes it pulled him. Need to get my suspension right. The sag has been set however now its like floating to much and its not giving me enough feedback. I pretty sure we will get it right. It does handle well for being a overweight. And I do like the bike anxious to see how it will perform with a good map.. The bike does fit me so much better than the 10r did. Let me do the mods and I will let you know. ( if I can find a company that has a full ti system I would have already started)... Do you the PC will fix the low end grunt?
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smokinZX14
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posted April 29, 2006 06:37 PM
((((I did get to race my buddy on his GSXR1000 (modded to hell) and yes it pulled him...))))). Sounds to me that there is no problem... Modded Gixxer... wait wait it was modded to hell Gixxer and you pulled him....I see no problem...Only problem i have is a have no zx14 yet
P/C will fix a fuel curve problem and if the low power out put is a fuel problem then a p/c will fix it... I don't think is a fuel problem, it think Kawi retardrd to timing at low rpms to make the bike more rideable at lows speeds ... I would email Brock, Muzzy and ask them if there is a fix coming... If it needs to be fixed at all...
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zx61114
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posted April 29, 2006 06:39 PM
Gentlemen, allow me to chime in here. In 1993 I bought 2 ZX-6's. My wife had a Calf model I had a 49 stater. Her bike kicked the crap out of my bike everywhere plus got better MPG to boot. NO TWO ENGINES ARE ALIKE PERIOD. I can only speak from memory and history. Memory: When I rode the 14 in Daytona I remember the 14 pulling nice to about 5500 rpm then ripping my arms out of their sockets. Lucky I have strong teeth because the smile on my face seemed to keep everything in place. History NO ONE HERE has really broken in their engine yet. Most of the engines I've broken in over the last 10 years took between 6-9000 miles to fully break in. Here is another thing to think about, I'm not so sure performance is not suffering due to the new formula of fuel the US is introducing. Does the new fuel mess with the O2 sensors tricking the engine sort of speak? Don't be so quick to ignore this fact. Just a thought.
Rob
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Drowland
Zone Head
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posted April 29, 2006 06:44 PM
quote:
((((I did get to race my buddy on his GSXR1000 (modded to hell) and yes it pulled him...))))). Sounds to me that there is no problem... Modded Gixxer... wait wait it was modded to hell Gixxer and you pulled him....I see no problem...Only problem i have is a have no zx14 yet
P/C will fix a fuel curve problem and if the low power out put is a fuel problem then a p/c will fix it... I don't think is a fuel problem, it think Kawi retardrd to timing at low rpms to make the bike more rideable at lows speeds ... I would email Brock, Muzzy and ask them if there is a fix coming... If it needs to be fixed at all...
I will. It proably is some safety bullshit for squids. I'm no rookie I want my bike minus all the bullshit. (governors and timieing crap).
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fastestbusaaround
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posted April 29, 2006 06:44 PM
Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 29 Apr 2006 19:45
quote:
Wel lets say my 10 wasn't stock and it had over 20 rwhp over stock. So we arn't comparing apples to apples now. I did get to race my buddy on his GSXR1000 (modded to hell) and yes it pulled him. Need to get my suspension right. The sag has been set however now its like floating to much and its not giving me enough feedback. I pretty sure we will get it right. It does handle well for being a overweight. And I do like the bike anxious to see how it will perform with a good map.. The bike does fit me so much better than the 10r did. Let me do the mods and I will let you know. ( if I can find a company that has a full ti system I would have already started)... Do you the PC will fix the low end grunt?
No...all the mapping in the world won't fix that. I'm quite sure it can only be done by hacking the CPU. I don't miss the Busa's low end grunt...I rode it today and posted on it...nope she has nothing on this bike, nothing at all.
Edit: By the way -- congrats man, use it well!
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