franz131
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted April 22, 2006 05:09 PM
quote:
Where else but a closed course is where the engine will receive it's "break-in" miles. Now comes race day with a new engine to baby? Do I... get in the way of everyone in practice when I go out with this engine... worry about rpm levels, or do I haul ass and get myself up to racing speed? Tell me, which choice did I have in this scenario?
When you here the factory race teams talking about 'running in a new motor' it is clear that they follow some form of break-in procedure.
I disagree that you have to ride flat out as soon as you hit the track, on Friday there are many people breaking in things like brake pads, new boots and new motors
I also only have a racebike and my break-in is a series of heat cycles and dyno pulls so I'm not arguing for an elongated procedure.
  
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted April 22, 2006 05:35 PM
factory race bikes have the equivalent of a "blueprinted" engine... once again something totally different.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted April 22, 2006 06:01 PM
Oh no fish, this is apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Rings are rings. Tolerances are just as close today as 20 years ago. I doubt they changed the cam tower caps to cam clearances, plus the ring end gap per inch is probably the same as well?... (without the 14's manual in front of me, I am assuming same tolerances)
Nikasil finishes have their microscopic machined high spots as well. Part of the rings job is to shave down these peaks so as to make a better seal eventually. Where is the fruit change pertaining to rings working a different way in a cast iron cylinder with your standard hone finish? You think apples and oranges come without seeds? Call the seeds peaks, or machine flaws. There is no difference. The rings create the seal in any cylinder finish. We clear?
We aren't talking about high strung engines with a fuse you light at one end. These are low maintenance engines that stay together all season. A leak down test/oil filter inspection determines whether the engine is torn down for service.
Franz, I don't believe in slow break-ins. My experience told me not to worry. I'm on the gas as soon as the cylinders expand enough where the pistons don't grow faster, and seize a skirt.
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E-tard
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted April 22, 2006 06:17 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 22 Apr 2006 19:17
speedgene, sorry bro but I happen to disagree with you. Type all you want. My experience and the manhy industry people I have met and discussed this with lead me to believe otherwise.
You may want to disagree with Franz as well, but I know who Franz is and you dont. If you knew where he worked and what he did you;d think twice about second guessing him...
it does make for good entertainment though! 
fish away!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted April 22, 2006 07:27 PM
Franz doesn't mean anything more to me than Bob does to him I am sure. 
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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zermatt
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted April 22, 2006 09:17 PM
4 complete heat cycles and 134 miles so far
Going for a 250 mile ride tomorrow... my working for the weekend is DONE!!!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted April 22, 2006 09:26 PM
Correct sir fish, I don't know the background of many of the members? I am so glad you have the right to disagree with me, because I'm sure as sure as a grub will catch more fish than bait, I be doing things my way. Only because I've raced so many bikes both drag, and road racing that I've lost two bikes to a low battery, and the other, running out of gas in races. The one (stretched) rod thru the case was simply too many hours on the crank. Looking back, I've never lunched any engine due to a "tolerance" or ring failure. What can I tell you fish? Should I just throw what empirical knowledge I"ve accumulated because you heard the "low down" from some industry types?
I'm willing to hear a different perspective. You just disagree fish. I have yet to hear the logic why?
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E-tard
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted April 22, 2006 09:33 PM
Speedgene... feel free to search the archives of the site. I'm not retyping anything for you. My position hasnt changed since day one... for the ZX-12R, for the ZX-10R, and now for this model...
follow the instructions provided to you by the manufacturer... they are there for a reason.
If you somehow think you "know" more than the engineers who designed and built this product, then you must be a truly remarkable person.
-good luck
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted April 22, 2006 10:23 PM
....I'm waitin' to hear about the first rider who seized their 14's engine based on whatever break-in method he/she chose...if any seizing happens, it'll more likely be because of low oil levels and long-ass high-speed wheelies day in day out...something that I've never done, so I wouldn't know and can only imagine...especially if the oil pump pick-up is not in the optimum area for constant hi-speed wheelies....
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted April 22, 2006 11:30 PM
Sorry fish, I don't need no stinkin' book break-in procedures. I'll even sustain 2,000 rpm for thousands of miles if you like. You won't find a wear pattern if you broke it down to measure every part. I've seen the same 500 mile procedure on almost every brand made. This was back in the 1960's I'm talking about!
Don't you think the metallurgy has vastly improved over the years? Why the same 500 mile break in level? Dude, get a clue.
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E-tard
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2toGo
Expert Class
Posts: 165
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posted April 23, 2006 04:36 AM
If it's going to blow up, let it happen under the warranty !! Clime high O' awsome tach. Love to see you spin. 17 years of track racing backs up my theory . Break it in like you plan on riding it.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted April 23, 2006 04:38 AM
Light throttle use, don't under-rev or over-rev, don't lug the engine along in a high gear and use a bit more of everything in a progressive way. That way the engine will be in better shape as the miles clock up. Do the oil changes on or before time, don't try to break an engine in on synthetic lube. Bed the brakes in and scrub the tyres (tires). That's how I do it.
I've seen bikes raced and sprinted straight out of the crate and while they've been reliable and not had problems what are they like at 20,000 miles ?
Another thing, on modern Triumphs they can download data from the bike and tell how it's been used. Don't know if the other manufacturer's are there yet but it would't help a warranty claim if the break in proceedure had been ignored.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted April 23, 2006 05:43 AM
Im breaking mine in rite now ............. at 200 miles : )
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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zx61114
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted April 23, 2006 06:09 AM
Great posts here. FTS is right about being broken in at the factory, Honda also test the dyno at the factory. The way I see it just don't drive the same RPM for more than 3-4 mins, alter the throttle for the first 200 miles. I've done this with all my bikes and I've never had any problems.
Robert
2002 VFR 82,853 miles
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 23, 2006 06:16 AM
Lets see here ...Fish goes to Vegas and beats the hell out of the zx14 with no problems.. And that's with the Kawi people standing right there watching ....Guess the Kawi boys where not all that worried about break in ...Oh maybe i'm wrong and fish drove all the 14s around for a week before eveyrone else got to Vegas....lol .....32 years of building race engines and i have had not one go bad.........Most All these motors go right to the dyno or to the strip.....Guys run them in anyway you like ,it will be just fine ... don't over heat it and keep the oil clean and you will have a nice happy life with your Motorcycle.......One more item> run mobil one 15 50 full syn oil on your 2 oil change... 114000 miles and 1000s of 1/4 mile passes on my 500 ci motor in my 70 Roadrunner has proven to me that Mobil one oil does a great job.......
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted April 23, 2006 06:54 AM
...when I get mine, I'm breakin' it using genuine virgin fish oil....
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 23, 2006 06:58 AM
quote:
...when I get mine, I'm breakin' it using genuine virgin fish oil....
If you use Fish oil we will be able to smell you coming ..........lol
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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FasterThanStink
Pro
Posts: 1218
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posted April 23, 2006 06:58 AM
OMG!! Not the oil wars and the break in procedures in one thread! 
We have a situation here.
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Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 23, 2006 07:03 AM
quote:
OMG!! Not the oil wars and the break in procedures in one thread!
We have a situation here.
You are right .... this will be a long and nasy thread .....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted April 23, 2006 07:04 AM
Let's toss in air filters too!
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franz131
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted April 23, 2006 07:05 AM
quote:
I also only have a racebike and my break-in is a series of heat cycles and dyno pulls so I'm not arguing for an elongated procedure.
Considering my last post ^^^^^^^, I don't see how I ended up on the opposite side of the argument with speedgene. I actually agree with speedgene except for the very first hour of running, where I believe that a bit of care is best.
I don't care if anyone agrees, just get it right, please.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted April 23, 2006 07:06 AM
Here we go again and again 
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 23, 2006 07:18 AM
quote:
Let's toss in air filters too!
Don't forget oil filters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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CrazyKenny
Novice Class
Posts: 41
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posted April 23, 2006 07:22 AM
As with most of you, "WE" have all had the task of breaking in many new engines. Clearly everone has an opinion about it. What I want to know is have any of you had negative results with any one way. Such as "Ride it like you stole it" or "Baby it until 500 or 2000 miles" I've done it both ways and have had no better or worse results either way. Remember opinions are a lot like assholes everybodys got one!
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted April 23, 2006 07:23 AM
quote:
quote:
Let's toss in air filters too!
Don't forget oil filters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...and tires!!!!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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