mono12r
Novice Class
Posts: 38
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posted February 22, 2006 06:53 AM
Gear ratio/speeds???
Has anyone done the math on MPH in different gears on the new ZX14?? I am currious if it will have a tall first gear like the ZX10(103?mph 1st gear) or closer to the ZX12R(around 82mph)
   
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tslewisz
Expert Class
Posts: 328
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posted February 22, 2006 08:29 AM
Just guessing, of course, but I'm betting it will be closer to the 12. The 10's high 1st gear and close ratio's are better for roadracing and a peaky engine. The big torque of the 14 allows for a wider ratio tranny and a lower 1st gear would provide nice launches while being easier on the clutch.
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dubious
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posted February 22, 2006 09:35 AM
I have not compared 1-5 gears, but did compare 6th of the zx12 and zx14.
I was curious if they geared it for drag racing, or increased torque multiplication for roll-ons.
It appears that 14 is geared within 2 mph of the 12 in 6th gear.
Anything it gains, will not be due to lower gearing .... in 6th gear anyway.
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BobC
Pro
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posted February 24, 2006 03:42 AM
Quick Maths
Primary 1.541, 6th 1.036 final 2.412. Gives 4.33 revs/sec at 1000rpm
Rear Wheel circumference is 76.92inches
Speed in 6th is 27.76 ft/sec at 1000rpm
or 263.72 ft/sec at 9500rpm
Equals 179.81 mph at 9500rpm (peak power)
or 189.27mph at 10000rpm.
Hope this helps,
Bob.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted February 24, 2006 04:08 AM
Just did the sums for the other gears, all at 10000rpm:
1st = 74.70mph
2nd = 100.71mph
3rd = 126.91mph
4th = 147.10mph
5th = 169.91mph
Not a close ratio box like my GSX-R1000.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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dubious
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posted February 24, 2006 08:20 AM
 Edited By: dubious on 24 Feb 2006 08:21
My numbers at 10,500 rpm (11,000 is redline)
1st = 130 km/hr = 81 mph
2nd= 175 km/hr = 109 mph
3rd= 220 km/hr = 137 mph
4th= 255 km/hr = 158 mph
5th= 293 km/hr = 182 mph
6th= 326 km/hr = 202 mph
Converted to 10, 000 rpm Bobs #'s and mine differ by 2-3mph.
6th gear @ 10, 500 is 202 mph .(bobs 189 mph is @ 10,000 rpm, or 198.5 @10, 500)
Pretty safe to say they both are reasonably accurate.
Deresricted it is quite possible it may pull these #'s.
Depends how the HP curve falls after peak.
Busa's might be eating some crow !
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BobC
Pro
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posted February 25, 2006 12:49 AM
Yes, close enough to agree. I took the rear tire circumference as 76.92 inches for a 190/50/17. There could be some variation here with make of tire and amount of wear.
Can't wait to get mine. Our first meeting for flyers, top speed runs, is in May. Hopefully I'll be able to put some miles on it first and get it on the dyno too.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 25, 2006 02:34 AM
Nice calculations!
I want the smallest possible increase in gearing for a couple of reasons
1) Better fuel economy at high speeds
2) TRE installed that beast is going to try to kick me off the saddle
3) It's nice to be able to go +200mph @ 9500rpm (PS peak)
4) Ram-Air assist more when you go faster
Can someone (dubious?) do the math.
The correct size in the back, too (1 tooth less)
Thank You!
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dubious
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posted February 25, 2006 08:55 AM
Edited By: dubious on 25 Feb 2006 09:38
Yes, I concurr Bob.
I rounded the circumference to 77" for tire growth at speed.
Most tires vary by up to 10mm or more for any given size.
So these numbers will reflect that, as well as air density, inclination of the road, wind direction etc.
This is why I did not get to fanatical.
These are just some good base numbers to compare with other bikes.
VPN .
Top speed @10,500 was 202 mph.
I'll shoot for 202mph at 9500 rpm.
Is 202 mph close enough to 200 mph? VPN?
10,500 rpm is approx 10.5% more than 9500 rpm.
we want to decrease the final drive ratio by that amount (10.5%) to reduce the rpm by 10.5%.
stock final drive ratio is 17/41 or 2.412 : 1.
2.412 divided by 110.5% = 2.183
Target final drive ratio is 2.183:1
17/37= 2.176 =202.6 mph
18/39= 2.167 =203.4 mph
18/40= 2.222 = 198.4 mph
all at 9500 rpm.
These are as close as you'll get .
Kawaski may have geared it already for max speed restricted, at 9500 rpm , thereby allowing it to accelerate to top speed as quickly as possible,
My figures equate to 186 mph at 9700 rpm , so it looks as though thats what they have done.
The taller gearing changes will hurt acceleration, and roll on performance (less mechanical advantage).
My experience has shown that often taller gearing or taller tires causes a machine to fall of the pipe (power curve), at cruise speeds and actually hurts fuel mileage.
It will depend what speed you intend to ride at.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted February 26, 2006 01:51 PM
or 190 mph , 6th gear 10,500 rpm with 16/41 gearing (1 less tooth on frt.).
The same gearing Ricky Gadson is running in the 1/4.
Personally I am willing to give up 10 MPH for even better roll on, daily street riding and drag racing.
Only on the autobahn in Germany I would, really use more top speed.
Hope to have it shipped over to ride it there on vacation next year!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 26, 2006 05:27 PM
I think that cycles have these three front gears multiplying the back wheel gears
It would be wonderfull to change a bikes gearing as easily
one for drag races, 2nd "normal", one for express ways +200mph
or even just the two
OR
the box could have 7 gears (and be heavier and larger)
Naah!
Perhaps the original is just fine...
Now what speed might give me the optimum mileage at top gear?
max torque = 7500 rpm ???
something else?
I wonder what is the break-even point
where the fuel consumtion suddenly goes sky-high
Any ideas on ANY bike from the past
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dubious
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posted February 26, 2006 08:03 PM
Now what speed might give me the optimum mileage at top gear?
max torque = 7500 rpm ???
___________________________________________________________
At 7500 rpm, with stock gearing your terminal velocity would be about 144 MPH, or 232 km/h
the aerodynamic drag would hurt your fuel mileage, even though its at peak torque, it would take more to push the air .
At 70 mph which would be about 3600 rpm, the motor probably ( have not seen the dyno yet) so probably be just coming into the torque curve.
I would imagine 4500 rpm and 86 mph would be best compromise between torque curve and aero drag in top gear.
......since its geared so tall
You might even see better mileage in 5th gear at 4000 rpm =70 mph.
less aero drag than 86 mph, and motor is into torque curve.
Who knows?
I just want to ride the damn thing.
I can't wait to take to a quiet road I know, that is straight for about a mile........
...........and wring the living shit out of it!!!
VPN, your not going to have much fun riding this bike if your that worried about fuel mileage!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 27, 2006 04:30 AM
Yeah!
My point is that I want to go to the Alps as fast as possible
If me and Nina take turns in German express ways
riding with hard bags and pushing the bike to the max
we need to fuel very very often
This is not the fastest way
By driving at the optimum speed we can skip one fueling stop
and thus arrive earlier to Austria
I would love to see a test where four sport-touring bikes finds the optimum
BMW R1200RT, ZX-12R, ZX-14, Hayabusa
Perhaps Motorrad?
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 27, 2006 04:58 AM
SuperBike Magazine September 2000
Title: Taken From Behind
Top Speed:
Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa : 196 mph
The fastest production bike SuperBike has ever tested.
They then went on to do 177 mph, two-up.
So we are going to go two-up plus hard bags
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted February 27, 2006 05:50 AM
quote:
I wonder what is the break-even point
where the fuel consumtion suddenly goes sky-high
Any ideas on ANY bike from the past
My findings riding to the Alps (even if I prefer France and Italy) have been that normally You can't ride so fast that riding faster will loose You average speed. Even when I'm been able to ride full tank in the region of 200-280 kph (125-175MPH) I haven't never used more than 10l/100km (23.5MPG). And on ZX12 even 140 kph (88MPH) meand 7,5l/100km (31.4MPG) so the difference isin't that big. Last early summer (last week of may + first week of june) I went with my friend (he has also 12) to München and Austrian Alps and our mean was something like 8,5l/100km (27.7MPG) and we could usually ride about 2/3 tanks at max speed to ride - wich was between 200-260kph (125-160 MPH) depending on the curves. You know the Autobahn is quite twisty at 200 kph+ :-) By biggest consuption has been one time near Hamburg when I rode one stretch of road fort and back to brake 320kph (200MPH) on speedo. Then I had consuption of app. 10l/100km (23.5MPG). Biggest was however on tract where I got about 12-13l/100km (19.6-18MPG).
So usually on bike go as fast as You can. And when riding +250 kph (155MPH) the stop at every 40 min feels quite nice...
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 27, 2006 08:05 AM
Thank you very very much for this information!
I think we will settle for max 155mph ~250kph two-up & hard bags
Autobahn is both twisty and bumby for the cars
when you go fast - so it must be so for the bikes, too
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dubious
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posted February 27, 2006 09:24 AM
Edited By: dubious on 27 Feb 2006 09:26
I am looking at the Canadian brochure , and it states
" the LCD display ineracts with the engine ecu to display current gear position,.... fuel consumption...,fuel level,....estimated range...., odometer, twin trip meters, and clock.".
Good news the first time you ride it you'll know where to get the best fuel mileage instantly.!
The bike only gets better.
It seems to be a real step up !
Man I am itching to ride my new bike.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted February 27, 2006 09:36 AM
The final drive ratio is 17/41.
with a bonneville box or tre she'll probably due 195-197
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 27, 2006 10:59 AM
How did the ZX-12R perform on those twisty Alp roads?
Did you ever have to slip the clutch behind a snailing vehicle?
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted February 28, 2006 02:22 AM
quote:
I am looking at the Canadian brochure , and it states
" the LCD display ineracts with the engine ecu to display current gear position,.... fuel consumption...,fuel level,....estimated range...., odometer, twin trip meters, and clock.".
Wow - didn't notice that! The estimated range is the best feature You can have. Just hope it will be accurate. Because calculating the range is one of the biggest mindgames I do when travelling trough Europe. Because on autobahn there always are the km to the next gas station so I'm always calculating if the fuel will last. Usually I can get it to 1-3 l left on the tank. And this calculating is the key to the fast travelling on the bahn, because You can easilly save many stops if You know how long it is to the next station.
To VPN:
Well the 12's first gear is just a little bit too tall to the most extreme hairspins but luckily there isin't that many of those. And almost every bike is too tall for them. But usully the 12 pulls of very cleanly and You hardly have to shift. 2nd or 3rd gear will suite You trough the Alps. And because You're quite new here You can maybe check out my travel photos: http://users.tkk.fi/~tuusinii/kuvat.html. There aren't my last pictures because I haven't have had time to update - like more riding...
But probably have to wait at least 1 year to be able to get the 14 
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 28, 2006 03:54 AM
tuusinii!
Marvellous photos, which makes me yarn to go to the Alps
Summer 2001 (perhaps 18th of August) :
"Kuva Le Grande Motte'lta 3452 metristä."
"Photo from Le Grande Motte at 3452 meters" = 11325.5 ft
How was the 12R engine that high - any problems?
Was there always good weather up there?
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ninja rider
Novice Class
Posts: 100
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posted February 28, 2006 04:02 AM
quote:
How did the ZX-12R perform on those twisty Alp roads?
Did you ever have to slip the clutch behind a snailing vehicle?
I ride my 12 each year from Belgium to the Italian Dolomites and do lots of passes (Stelvio, Splügenpass .....) They are quite difficult to negotiate two up on a 12 and require some clutch slipping certainly if you are trailing behind a slow car, but I enjoy every minute of it.
Ninja Rider
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Don't lie, cheat or steal, the government doesn't want any competition
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VPN
Zone Head
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posted February 28, 2006 04:05 AM
ninja rider: do you have your own web pages?
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ninja rider
Novice Class
Posts: 100
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posted February 28, 2006 04:21 AM
quote:
quote:
I wonder what is the break-even point
where the fuel consumtion suddenly goes sky-high
Any ideas on ANY bike from the past
My findings riding to the Alps (even if I prefer France and Italy) have been that normally You can't ride so fast that riding faster will loose You average speed. Even when I'm been able to ride full tank in the region of 200-280 kph (125-175MPH) I haven't never used more than 10l/100km (23.5MPG). And on ZX12 even 140 kph (88MPH) meand 7,5l/100km (31.4MPG) so the difference isin't that big. Last early summer (last week of may + first week of june) I went with my friend (he has also 12) to München and Austrian Alps and our mean was something like 8,5l/100km (27.7MPG) and we could usually ride about 2/3 tanks at max speed to ride - wich was between 200-260kph (125-160 MPH) depending on the curves. You know the Autobahn is quite twisty at 200 kph+ :-) By biggest consuption has been one time near Hamburg when I rode one stretch of road fort and back to brake 320kph (200MPH) on speedo. Then I had consuption of app. 10l/100km (23.5MPG). Biggest was however on tract where I got about 12-13l/100km (19.6-18MPG).
So usually on bike go as fast as You can. And when riding +250 kph (155MPH) the stop at every 40 min feels quite nice...
Two years I did some sort of a test on the German autobahn (between Ulm and Würzburg) : two up with top case, saddle bags and tank bag.
The distance between two gasstaions was exactly 154 km (95,71miles) I clocked the time between start and stop at the pumps and this took me exactly 44 minutes which equates to
an average of 210 kmh (130,5 mph). During this the 12 consumed 17 liter of gas which is roughly 11 MPG
Ninja Rider
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Don't lie, cheat or steal, the government doesn't want any competition
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ninja rider
Novice Class
Posts: 100
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posted February 28, 2006 04:23 AM
quote:
ninja rider: do you have your own web pages?
No I don't but you can always mail or pm me if you want
greetz
NR
____________
Don't lie, cheat or steal, the government doesn't want any competition
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