fish_antlers
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The Truth is Out There
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posted February 09, 2006 08:43 AM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 9 Feb 2006 09:48
Swft... freek and I were having this very conversation last night...
it reminds me of a thread I started a long time ago in the 12R section.. "What's the 12R for anyways? ( link..)
seriously... we were talking about the target market for the 14, and what its competition is...
Our conclusion was that perhaps KHI has designed this bike to be a true sport touring bike.. to go head to head against BMW and such, but that because of all the whining and crying from the 12R crowd perhaps they are reluctant to release the kit we need to make this bike complete (ie: hardbags etc etc)..
I for one always wondered what the 12R was good for... as cool a bike as it was, it never really excelled in any one category. It was always chasing the Busa's tail by a fraction of a second on the strip (argue away.. I know some go faster some go slower, but in stock form this is what history wrote).. it was argueably "okay" cornering, but never amazing at it. It was an armfull to take on long tours and lacked the seat, luggage and appointments to make it complete in that aspect.
On the track, unless you pumped in serious serious cash, it was pointless as well...
People keep dreaming of a mystical "14R"... a 1400 cc version of a ZX-10R...
I have to ask myself, why? When you have canyon carvers becoming as finetuned as the 10R is, it would make more sense to make the 10R slightly bigger than to make the 12R and it's chassis bigger.. at least the 10R rails, and it does it well...
If Kawasai's mantra holds true, building purposeful bikes, we should soon have some sort of a justification for the 14.
Real touring would have been a treat on a properly done out 12R, but you couldnt buy one in stock form...
so is the 14 a "grand" touring bike and they just cant admit it yet? Or just what is it?
and why do any of you care? or do you want your magical 1400 cc zx-10r that tips the scales at 540 instead of 440?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
   
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted February 09, 2006 08:58 AM
Interesting. However a 12r with helibars and a zero gravity sport touring windscreen becomes an exellent sport touring bike.. especially wit the corbin seat, but you but slides all over the place during high speed runs.. I'm 6-4 and Ive been running this set up for awhile and arrive from long trips feeling refreshed
supra
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DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted February 09, 2006 09:51 AM
A ZX14 with hard luggage is what I want (and chain drive - no shaft drive)
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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tslewisz
Expert Class
Posts: 328
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posted February 09, 2006 11:01 AM
quote:
Interesting. However a 12r with helibars and a zero gravity sport touring windscreen becomes an exellent sport touring bike.. especially wit the corbin seat, ... running this set up for awhile and arrive from long trips feeling refreshed
supra
My 12 was setup like that, too, and I liked a lot. I think the 14 will be even better.
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted February 09, 2006 12:08 PM
Edited By: trenace on 9 Feb 2006 12:09
quote:
quote:
The 14 could even be lighter for curb weight while heavier in so-called "dry weight,"
no, it's even heavier
You know the curb weight?
What is it?
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ZX11D
Zone Head
Internet Police
Posts: 674
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posted February 09, 2006 05:06 PM
To me the "curb weight" is wet weight, fully loaded, ready to be driven away, from the curb. If it means something else, someone shoot me please. 
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted February 09, 2006 06:31 PM
Edited By: trenace on 9 Feb 2006 18:39
Yes... I meant, did VPN know what the value was, since he stated it was heavier than the 12's. Or what evidence does he have of it being heavier (the published "dry weight" being a little heavier than the 12's, where the 12's published dry weight is far lighter than the curb weight minus fluids and battery, is not strong evidence.)
If for example the gap between the 14's dry weight and its curb weight is the same as the 10R's gap, then you add in that differential to the 14's dry weight and you'd get a much lighter curb weight than the 12R's.
Not that I'm saying that WILL be the case... but if you'd for example assumed the 10R would have as big a gap as the 12R did, you'd have grossly overestimated its curb weight. It's possible that to some extent that could happen here; it's also possible it won't.
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted February 09, 2006 07:39 PM
quote:
quote:
I guess Kawasaki needs to put Rob Muzzy on payroll and let him do the hp thing.
A couple of years R&D on the ZX12R NHRA package and failure! They tried this already 
Hafta wonder what NHRA and their rules had to do with this. NHRA has done a wonderful job of making Hardley's dominent in Pro Stock....
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 09, 2006 08:29 PM
Edited By: dubious on 9 Feb 2006 21:04
Jibberish
speaking in tongues
Trenace what are babbling about now .
Usually you posts are much more informative, but the last couple days I've found you nothing but tiring.
What a battle.
Where does the tanacity come from?
WTF?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 09, 2006 08:37 PM
Edited By: dubious on 9 Feb 2006 21:17
quote:
Yes... I meant, did VPN know what the value was, since he stated it was heavier than the 12's. Or what evidence does he have of it being heavier (the published "dry weight" being a little heavier than the 12's, where the 12's published dry weight is far lighter than the curb weight minus fluids and battery, is not strong evidence.)
If for example the gap between the 14's dry weight and its curb weight is the same as the 10R's gap, then you add in that differential to the 14's dry weight and you'd get a much lighter curb weight than the 12R's.
Not that I'm saying that WILL be the case... but if you'd for example assumed the 10R would have as big a gap as the 12R did, you'd have grossly overestimated its curb weight. It's possible that to some extent that could happen here; it's also possible it won't.
Give up the fight Trenace.
Notice how posters don't respond to your rebuttles !
Nobody cares what drools from your lips!
IT'S OBVIOUS YOUR OWNED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE PEOPLE WANT PROOF.
THEY ARE TIRED OF HEARING SHIT
WE WANT TO SEE IT.
UNBIASED REPORTS FROM TEST EDITORS OF A REPUTABLE MAGAZINE, FROM MANY , NOT 1 EDITOR.
GIVE US REAL WORLD ET'S, REAL RWHP, AND REAL WORLD WEIGHTS.
ENOUGH BULLSHIT ALREADY
WALK THE TALK KAWI
Make everyone happy (including me)and prove the hype
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted February 09, 2006 09:33 PM
dub... I have to side with trenace on this one...
chill out and wait like the rest of us!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 09, 2006 10:13 PM
yeah, I know.
I'm still hopeful,and yet becoming doubtful
I have a bipolar disorder.
Paranoid schizophrenic
LOL
Its not my fault. LOL
Thats why I'm dubious.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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gaby12
Novice Class
Posts: 60
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posted February 09, 2006 11:56 PM
Edited By: gaby12 on 9 Feb 2006 23:59
Mood disorder (bipolar) coupled with thought disorder (schizophrenia, paranoid type) = schizoaffective d/o 
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pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
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posted February 10, 2006 12:20 AM
Oh my golly... just look at what this 14 is doing to you guys. You know their watching...laughing. KAWASAKI!!! damn you, damn you to he!!
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted February 10, 2006 07:05 AM
I'm laughing too!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted February 10, 2006 08:06 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 10 Feb 2006 08:07
Can I interrupt this topic and ask that you support us by ordering a brand new ZX-14.com shirt!
This is top dollar entertainment here, folks! No doubt about it!
It's only with the meager financial support of members like you that we can continue to deliver drama such as this!
Order your new shirt today so that we can keep topics like this alive!
We are shipping the first batch Saturday Feb 10!
That means that by this time next week YOU could be wearing one of these amazing ZX-14.com shirts!
CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE SHIRTS AND PLACE YOUR ORDER!
Help a brother out!!
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Phantom Menace
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted February 10, 2006 01:10 PM
What a disappointment....
Definately doesn't justify trading in the 12r and having to deal with a sport tourer design with that ugly styling.
Rather just drop $2000 into the 12R for a 1270 kit and some headwork.. throw on a pipe and pc3, bam.... 190rwhp. Keep the styling and versatility of the ZX12R with the power to beat up on the piped ZX14's.
It's really too bad they didn't stick to the formula..
"Make an upscaled version of the current open classer"
It would have been nice to see a ZX13R (1299cc-1349cc) with the same bore/stroke ratio of the 10R and the same chassis / styling / high spec tune.
Could have easily made a high reving 170rwhp stock engine with a close ratio tranny that was not only sexy to look at, but a blast to ride on the highway as much as it is in the backroads.
Then for those who do the drag strip.... throw an arm and slam the sumbitch down like the 10R guys do and whoops some ass!
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 10, 2006 01:11 PM
I would like to see ZX-11R
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted February 10, 2006 03:48 PM
Edited By: trenace on 10 Feb 2006 15:54
quote:
quote:
Yes... I meant, did VPN know what the value was, since he stated it was heavier than the 12's. Or what evidence does he have of it being heavier (the published "dry weight" being a little heavier than the 12's, where the 12's published dry weight is far lighter than the curb weight minus fluids and battery, is not strong evidence.)
If for example the gap between the 14's dry weight and its curb weight is the same as the 10R's gap, then you add in that differential to the 14's dry weight and you'd get a much lighter curb weight than the 12R's.
Not that I'm saying that WILL be the case... but if you'd for example assumed the 10R would have as big a gap as the 12R did, you'd have grossly overestimated its curb weight. It's possible that to some extent that could happen here; it's also possible it won't.
Give up the fight Trenace.
Notice how posters don't respond to your rebuttles !
Nobody cares what drools from your lips!
IT'S OBVIOUS YOUR OWNED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE PEOPLE WANT PROOF.
Loser.
You obviously fail to understand a clear explanation of why your assertion -- of supposedly knowing it's heavier than the 12 in curb weight -- is unwarranted, and on top of that, where you say "the people want proof," it is YOU making statement of positive knowledge of its curb weight, claiming without proof it is heavier than the 12, where I point out there's not enough info to state that for sure. The source of bullshit your lips, or ass, or what have you.
Your error, of assuming that differences in curb weights can be accurately predicted from differences in published dry weights, is a KINDERGARTEN level error and is often vastly wrong. We've been back and forth on this several times and you still don't comprehend it. Back to nursery school for you I guess.
I appreaciate you can't understand that, but the fact is, it's you that's making assertions without proof, and like a typical loser, can't discuss it rationally but choose to take it to an insulting level. You get one reply (if even that) and that's it in those cases. Buh-bye now.
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted February 10, 2006 04:19 PM
Dubious = hype.
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road rage
Expert Class
Posts: 129
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posted February 10, 2006 04:24 PM
Everybody need to stop tripping, the ZX-14 will be great I just know it will. Cut the crap already. Now.....how can I get some cheap insurance, Geico said $2600 per year, and Progressive said $1335 per year ($112 per month). That's for full coverage, but who needs that? Maybe I'll split the difference after my down payment; $8,000 remaining between two (2) Credit Cards and forget about full coverage, that way my insurance will be $410 per yr, or like $35 per month? Gotta figure something out quick. I plan on paying the $8,000 within 12 months anyway (Apr 07'), regardless of how it's financed so the CC route doesn't seem that bad and the difference between full and basic insurance I'll probably pay in interest rates on the CC but I really hait having to pay all the full coverage stuff. Any thought? By the way, the CC would be like 10% or about the same as a conventional loan.
Phil
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VPN
Zone Head
Posts: 718
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posted February 10, 2006 04:25 PM
So what are the dry and curb weights of the 10R and the fuel tank capasity
Then compare to ZX-14 dry weight and fuel capasity
You'll get the minimum ZX-14 curb weight
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted February 10, 2006 04:55 PM
Edited By: trenace on 10 Feb 2006 19:17
The 2005 ZX-10R's published dry weight is 374.9 lb, while its curb weight is 432.1 lb. So the difference between them is 57.2 lb. This is with a fuel capacity of 17 liters (4.5 gallons) and coolant capacity of 2.5 liters.
If we figure the gasoline at 700 grams per liter and the coolant at 1 kilo per liter, then that sums to about 31.7 lb.
So for the 2005 ZX-10R, there's the weight of the fuel and coolant, plus another 25.5 lb of "fat", some of which is oil and battery. Add the dry weight, the weight of fuel and coolant (31.7 lb), and the 25.5 lb for oil, battery, and "fat," and you get the the curb weight.
The ZX-14 has a fuel capacity of 22 liters, four more, with coolant values not given. So those extra 4 liters are about 6.2 lb.
Thus, if the ZX-14's curb weight correlates to its dry weight the way the ZX-10R"s corresponds to its dry weight, but accounting for the added fuel, it would have a curb weight -- or as you put it "minimum curb weight," of 474 lb (dry weight) plus fuel and coolant (37.9 lb if same amount of coolant as ZX-10R) plus 25.5 lb for oil, battery, and "fat": grand total of 537.4 lb.
In contrast, the 12R's curb weight was 542.3 lb while carrying three less liters of gas.
So, if Kawasaki's accuracy of figures is as good for the 14 as for the 10R, it could actually be a little lighter bike than the 12R was, a bike where the dry weight figure was really way whacked out compared to the curb weight.
I am NOT saying that WILL happen. I am saying that there's no guarantee that the 14 is as much heavier or even necessarily heavier at all just because the reported dry weight is heavier. It is possible the curb weight may be as low as 537.4 lb, or if the 14 carries more coolant and/or oil than the 10R and/or has a heavier battery, 537.4 lb corrected upwards by those amounts, which would be small.
The dry weights just aren't that close a guideline to be able to make close calls between bikes as to their curb weights. A bike doesn't have to be 11 lb heavier on the road just because the published curb weight is 11 lb more than another bike. It could in fact be a few pounds lighter than that bike and be entirely consistent with other Kawasaki examples, if the comparison bike is one that, like the 12, had a giant gap between dry and curb weights, whereas with the new bike it's unknown whether it's a giant gap or an accurate one this time.
The best that can be said is the weight will be close.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 10, 2006 06:27 PM
Edited By: dubious on 10 Feb 2006 18:28
quote:
quote:
quote:
Yes... I meant, did VPN know what the value was, since he stated it was heavier than the 12's. Or what evidence does he have of it being heavier (the published "dry weight" being a little heavier than the 12's, where the 12's published dry weight is far lighter than the curb weight minus fluids and battery, is not strong evidence.)
If for example the gap between the 14's dry weight and its curb weight is the same as the 10R's gap, then you add in that differential to the 14's dry weight and you'd get a much lighter curb weight than the 12R's.
Not that I'm saying that WILL be the case... but if you'd for example assumed the 10R would have as big a gap as the 12R did, you'd have grossly overestimated its curb weight. It's possible that to some extent that could happen here; it's also possible it won't.
Give up the fight Trenace.
Notice how posters don't respond to your rebuttles !
Nobody cares what drools from your lips!
IT'S OBVIOUS YOUR OWNED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE PEOPLE WANT PROOF.
Loser.
You obviously fail to understand a clear explanation of why your assertion -- of supposedly knowing it's heavier than the 12 in curb weight -- is unwarranted, and on top of that, where you say "the people want proof," it is YOU making statement of positive knowledge of its curb weight, claiming without proof it is heavier than the 12, where I point out there's not enough info to state that for sure. The source of bullshit your lips, or ass, or what have you.
Your error, of assuming that differences in curb weights can be accurately predicted from differences in published dry weights, is a KINDERGARTEN level error and is often vastly wrong. We've been back and forth on this several times and you still don't comprehend it. Back to nursery school for you I guess.
I appreaciate you can't understand that, but the fact is, it's you that's making assertions without proof, and like a typical loser, can't discuss it rationally but choose to take it to an insulting level. You get one reply (if even that) and that's it in those cases. Buh-bye now.
Trenace:
I never said anything about the weight of the bike.
I was making a comment about your rebuttles.
The rebuttle with VPN was painful to read.
Insults?
I did not resort to name calling, and made a serious effort to refrain myself.
I am not going to get excited about any of it any longer.
Nobody pays me too!
I certainly hope you are though $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
There IS a difference between passion and emotion
.......................................between determination and excitation.
I'll beleive it all when I see it.
latah!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted February 10, 2006 07:16 PM
Edited By: trenace on 10 Feb 2006 19:28
If you think that:
quote:
Jibberish
speaking in tongues
Trenace what are babbling about now ...
Give up the fight Trenace.
Notice how posters don't respond to your rebuttles !
Nobody cares what drools from your lips!
IT'S OBVIOUS YOUR OWNED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
was civil and you don't call it insulting in tone, or you think it in any way has worthwhile content and is anything but pure crap, then just as I said in responding to that crap -- I had never said anything uncivil to you prior to that -- you belong in nursery school. And there is no point in answering people operating at that sort of level, except perhaps to point it out for what it is. But once that's done, just pass such individuals by. You were contributing nothing of substance, to say the least. Expect no further reply.
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