posted February 07, 2006 11:21 PM
Doug made his guess at 180+ -, you know he must know something..and Ryan S is on the sister site saying that us hp freeks will be happy with the 14.....something is wrong (low) with those numbers posted above.....the force tells me!
posted February 07, 2006 11:28 PM
tho the initial numbers didnt impress me too much either, a later re-read had me thinking about how peaky the 12's HP was, and especially how there was always that very narrow but tall "hill" right at the peak HP on the graph. IMHO that makes the 12's peak HP number somewhat misleading. so if this bike has a smoother curve (which i suspect it does given the stroke and torque numbers) and STILL manages even 10HP more peak than the 12, it's gonna be a monster.
posted February 07, 2006 11:34 PM
Edited By: trenace on 7 Feb 2006 23:40
Did Doug Meyer really post a guess of 180 hp SAE or better at the rear wheel stock?
Link?
That is hard for me to believe because as you say he's a VERY knowledgeable guy but that was NEVER a reasonable prediction.
Aside from technical reasons, hell, even in the very first information Kawasaki released they stated they were aiming for an increase in peak power of 8 hp (at the crank, which would be about 7 at the rear wheel) but a very large torque increase even all the way down at the bottom. We actually got a 10 hp increase at the rear wheel, it seems.
But this is supposed to be bad, because of totally unfounded speculations of 20 or 25 hp increases not being met.
Sure, I would have liked 20 or 25 hp too but I knew that was unrealistic, and it was never indicated.
posted February 08, 2006 02:43 AM
Doug Meyer did estimate that fiqure but he was comparing it to what Rob Muzzy got out of that displacement why didn't Kaw just let them build it? Quote from Muzzya page ....Muzzys has improved the 1361 kit for the ZX-12 owner who just can't get enough! This kit is now a 1375 and includes everything you need to turn your ZX-12R into a 210 horsepower monster. Like wheelies? Over 120 lbs. ft. of torque at 7500 rpm ought to provide all you need. Want low end power for those "tough" situations? How about 100 hp at 5000 rpm? It's a straight shot from there to 210 hp at 10,000 until you hit the rev limiter! This is street-able, controllable horsepower that creates a well mannered monster out of your ZX-12R. This kit contains everything you need. It is a true bolt in; no machine work is required. The forged pistons provide a 13.5:1 compression ratiog
posted February 08, 2006 03:46 AM
Per your request http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=20585&set_time=
quote:Did Doug Meyer really post a guess of 180 hp SAE or better at the rear wheel stock?
Link?
That is hard for me to believe because as you say he's a VERY knowledgeable guy but that was NEVER a reasonable prediction.
Aside from technical reasons, hell, even in the very first information Kawasaki released they stated they were aiming for an increase in peak power of 8 hp (at the crank, which would be about 7 at the rear wheel) but a very large torque increase even all the way down at the bottom. We actually got a 10 hp increase at the rear wheel, it seems.
But this is supposed to be bad, because of totally unfounded speculations of 20 or 25 hp increases not being met.
Sure, I would have liked 20 or 25 hp too but I knew that was unrealistic, and it was never indicated.
posted February 08, 2006 04:01 AM
Edited By: trenace on 8 Feb 2006 04:03
Thanks!
He may have, and on the simplest reading he did.... He has a four-word post in there reading "180 give or take."
That's all, no further context or specifics.
On the other hand, in his earlier post he, when talking about power to expect, said "Look for some really big numbers when these get sorted out."
So did he mean 180 give or take when sorted out? (For example with a good pipe.) Or stock?
Probably stock is what he meant, as his previous post was complimenting the stock pipe for being dual.
In which case, well, he shouldn't have estimated that, no offense intended. An extra mm of bore and the extra amount of stroking giving about 140 extra cc, combined with a known effort to retune for stronger bottom end -- Kawasaki had specifically published that, with a greatly improved figure for torque at 2000 rpm -- doesn't warrant figuring 20 extra peak hp (if referring to a dyno where a stock 12 makes 160 hp.)
posted February 08, 2006 06:30 AM
T ..that's what I meant...180+-....should have clairfied...it was confusing. 180 plus or minus ...or 180 give or take ....now better?
____________
we want hookers and blow, but will settle for porn and painpills
posted February 08, 2006 07:42 AM
wow and look at everything I missed in a couple of hours...
I for one can not wait to get it one on a dragstrip!! with those #'s It should pull just like my 1361 motor but in a stock format!! now that is cool. I still wish they would have consulted me in the looks dept.... but that motor should be very!! cool....
oh and if Brock actually can produce 200RWHP, that is 25HP more then my stock motor with pipe and pc, etc...
quote:190p.s. is a metric scale of measurement 1ps equals .986 horsepower it is 187Crank Horsepower
any Muzzy 1270, 1287, and of course the 1375 it appears will walk this bike quite easily..
Dude you are comparing a built race engine with a factory showroom stock engine. Put some mods on the 14, and see what happens. It's a shitload cheaper than building a stroker 12, trust me.
posted February 08, 2006 05:55 PM
Edited By: trenace on 8 Feb 2006 17:56
quote:11 lbs heavier than the 12 huh?
Not necessarily... from comparing dry weights you'd think the ZX-10R is 80 lb (or something like that) lighter than the ZX-12R in ready-to-ride condition, when the correct figure is more like 110 lb.
The 14 could even be lighter for curb weight while heavier in so-called "dry weight," though that's not the way to bet. But one certainly can't say the difference in curb weights will be exactly or even necessarily about 11 lb from the so-called "dry weights" differing by that amount. Those figures are very crude guidelines at best and apparently don't even refer to measured weights of actual bikes.
posted February 09, 2006 05:32 AM
Big low rpm torque = Spor Tour King, woohoo!
Personally I am waiting for the GTR1400 version, looks to be my cup of tea.
posted February 09, 2006 08:00 AM
Edited By: blueford on 9 Feb 2006 08:01
Japanese Marketing 101, slow and steady product design and development.
Japanese are by nature very conservative and are dedicated students of American "Principles of Marketing"!
Rule #6 never design a product that is a quantum leap in the market place (200+HP).
Excellent, but radical designs have a historical resistance in the market place, e.g. 63 Studebaker Avanti, Auburn Cord, 48 Tucker, etc.
The fact that there are only two competitors in the big bore sport bike market place further contributes to product design conservatism.
I would imagine the market strategies between Suzuki and Kaw would be, considering how small the market is, incremental horsepower increases and no huge R&D development expenses. I doubt they would try to kill each other over a relatively small market niche.
posted February 09, 2006 08:18 AM
I think they left plenty of room for tweaking in case Suzuki come out with something better.They can add 15hp to this engine at the drop of a hat if they deem it neccesary
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posted February 07, 2006 11:21 PM
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