posted January 31, 2006 11:15 AM
Edited By: canadamaxxer on 31 Jan 2006 11:17
quote:broken in per manufacturer's specs.... it is common knowledge that the "motoman" method will be the end of your engine (and warranty)
I don't agree that it is "common knowledge" that the motoman method will cause premature engine damage.
In fact he doesn't even lay claim to it being his method.....he is just the poster child for it in the motorcycle world. We were taught the same method in trade school in 1991.....long before I ever heard of motoman or even the internet.
As far as the warranty thing is concerned......I have to call bullshit. IF your engine pops, and you have to get it warranteed, the only concern is maintenance. If you can prove your maintenance procedures (a log book with receipts, invoices, etc), and you have the ability to not be bullied by the service dept, you will get warranty. All you have to do is state that you followed the recommended procedures and you are golden (why would you admit otherwise?). They cannot look into the engine and tell what procedure was used to break the engine in. All they see is the result...and often that evidence is baffling, contradictory, or just plain inconclusive (and I say this from the perspective of someone who has had to look at scored bores, damaged cranks and bearing shells to attempt to determine cause).
In addition, when you pick up your bike from the dealership when new, and it has 15km's on the ODO, how do you know how it was driven during the PDI? If bike guys road test bikes like we have road tested cars and trucks, you can guarantee that the bike was WFO for at least 1/2 of that distance.....especially if this is the first bike of that model to first hit the shop. I remember road testing the first Z06 Corvette our shop got....and there was no gentle break in for that car....and then when I brought it back, the dealership owners took it out and "checked it out". Do you know your bike wasn't on the dyno when it was first uncrated because the shop was slow and the guys curious? I know a couple of kawi techs that are chomping at the bit to dyno the first zx10 and 14 that hits their shop.....and that won't be a gentle situation at all. How are the customers who buy those bikes responsible for something like that.....when it happened before they owned them?
If someone can come up with logical, rational arguements about why this method does damage, we can talk, but so far no one has ever given good reasons why it is so bad. I even had a debate with Ted G about this, and he was not able to give good reasons.
If the concern is lack of power and oil consumption, then we are talking about a ring seating issue..... and there are only so many reasons why rings don't seat. If the concern is polishing, or tempering, wear mating of gears, etc.......go back and do some more homework....because it is all bullshit....
Every engine I have ever built (and the number is now in the hundreds), has been broken in using the method I was taught in school.....by several experienced, licensed mechanics. I have never had a comeback for oil consumption, lack of power or any other symptom relating to my break in procedures. This includes motorcycles, snowmobiles, cars, trucks, heavy equipment, small engines, etc.
I will say it again.....let's discuss this, but let's use facts, but not blanket statements......
posted January 31, 2006 11:45 AM
I think that the engine is already broken in when it comes from the factory.
You are breaking in the gears actually.
Opinions?
quote:I think that the engine is already broken in when it comes from the factory.
You are breaking in the gears actually.
Opinions?
In order to answer your question, I have to discuss the process of manufacturing. Most gears are made from a "relatively" soft material....because it is a "tougher material" (the same type of difference between grade 3 and 8 bolts); it can handle shock load without shattering, and more torque without shearing. After the gears are cut, they are hard surfaced, cleaned up and in some cases (i.e.: rear diff gears in RWD cars and trucks) they are run as a set under pressure to create a wear pattern. In most cases, they are simply packaged up and shipped off to the assembly company. When two gears rub together initially, they have microscopic peaks and valleys that will clash as they come in contact with each other. These rough parts are worn off with time and leave a wear mated surface (when you do the first oil change, those filings are parts of the silver that pours out of the crankcase)....but the users wrist is not a calibrated instrument to be used for the final wear mating of the gears.....there are too many variables to count on that process as the final step in the manufacturing process. The difference in the wear mating as a result of torque.....which is the force that mashes the gears together.....is not going to make any appreciable change......this is true because of the surface area of the contact, the oil film between the gears, and the speed of the contact.
Breaking gears in is like the idea that the owner should retorque the head bolts after "x" number of miles.....it just can't be counted on because it won't be done......and so is eliminated from the equation.
The same is true of any ball, roller, or needle bearings......highly polished, extremely low tolerance, precision made components........and NOT affected by the user's input.
The only things that are "broken in" are the piston rings....and chances are good that by the time someone picks up their new bike (car, truck,etc), that job is mostly done already.
I contend that the break in procedure is more from the lawyers than the engineers.......after all, if a new owner is scared into thinking that he/she will hurt the new baby, they will take it easy......much more so than if the salesman simply tells the new owner that the bike is dangerous and that they should be careful until they get used to the bike.
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posted January 31, 2006 11:15 AM
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