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posted January 30, 2006 08:31 AM
192hp/10000 & 149Nm/7500 217kg 80,5cm
192hp/10000 @ crank =~143kW
149Nm/7500 = 110 ft.lbs
217kg dry weight = 478.4 lbs
80,5cm seat hight =~ 31.69"
  
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zx12mark
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posted January 30, 2006 08:43 AM
is this from kawasaki
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posted January 30, 2006 09:25 AM
Swiss
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fish_antlers
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posted January 30, 2006 09:27 AM
oh, those crazy swiss! :P
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posted January 30, 2006 09:53 AM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 30 Jan 2006 10:19
*edit assist*
original
and that is without any RAM-Air assitance
with:
+200hp while travelling +200mph
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MadMike
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posted January 30, 2006 10:05 AM
that is at the crank? those #'s are not impressive.. The 12 was supposed to have almost 200 hp at the crank with a good pipe on it...
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D
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posted January 30, 2006 11:09 AM
163 @ the wheel?
Are the Swiss bikes still restricted?
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Drowland
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posted January 30, 2006 11:16 AM
Thats funny... Stock aint shit like I said.. The question is how much we get with full exhaust and mapped.... ??////
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fish_antlers
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posted January 30, 2006 12:42 PM
quote:
that is at the crank? those #'s are not impressive.. The 12 was supposed to have almost 200 hp at the crank with a good pipe on it...
uh... I believe the 12 made about 158 in stock form RWHP .. 160-170 with pipe and P/C if you did your homework.
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Drowland
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posted January 30, 2006 12:50 PM
GET YOUR FINGER OUT OF THERE! LOL
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MadMike
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posted January 30, 2006 12:55 PM
Edited By: MadMike on 30 Jan 2006 12:57
Mr. fishey...
My stock bike made 163 stock everything and 175 with pipe and everything...
I was never good at homework... 
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fish_antlers
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posted January 30, 2006 12:58 PM
mine made 158 and 163-165 with pipe/pc3
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D
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posted January 30, 2006 01:19 PM
My 01 12 was 162 stock and 173 pipe/pc/filters.
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worm~hole
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posted January 30, 2006 01:34 PM
...mine was 162 w/2000 miles on the clock run on a DJ150 at sea level...
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posted January 30, 2006 01:44 PM
Our Bandit shows easily 180
full 450kg load
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MadMike
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posted January 30, 2006 02:08 PM
Looks like you had a turd fish.. no wonder you sold her....
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worm~hole
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posted January 30, 2006 02:57 PM
fish turd
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jimzx9r
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posted January 30, 2006 03:18 PM
My suckerfirsh makes turds a foot long, i hate that thing.
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dubious
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posted January 30, 2006 08:35 PM
Fish......Did you gently break in your zx12 like the manual recommends....or..........
Once to operating temp, did you run it in hard like mototune suggests?
Where did 163 RWHP come from?
Most bikes lose 9-12% to the rear tire= 174 to 169 HP.
163 is 15 % loss !
Power under the curve is what this bike is all about.
I would think any 1000 making 170 rwhp is all peak, and not very broad.
Lets see some 170 RWHP literbike dyno graphs!
ZX-14 @ 12% drive train loss:
74 ft/lbs at 2000rpm ...........65 rwtq + 25 rwhp
110 ft/lbs at 7500 rpm ..........96.8 rwtq + 138 rwhp
101 ft/lbs at 10000 rpm. ..........89 rwtq + 169 rwhp
Nice fat curve. Roll ons will be pretty impressive.
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fish_antlers
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posted January 30, 2006 11:56 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 30 Jan 2006 23:57
broken in per manufacturer's specs.... it is common knowledge that the "motoman" method will be the end of your engine (and warranty)
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posted January 31, 2006 12:08 AM
impressive enough
but
drive train loss could be 15%
and you 2000 numbers don't match anyway
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dubious
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posted January 31, 2006 09:06 AM
quote:
impressive enough
but
drive train loss could be 15%
and you 2000 numbers don't match anyway
Check the us Kawi site.
70 some ft/lbs at 2000rpm.
If your worried and critical of a couple ft/lbs you have too much time on your hands.
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speedgene
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posted January 31, 2006 09:44 AM
quote:
broken in per manufacturer's specs.... it is common knowledge that the "motoman" method will be the end of your engine (and warranty)
fish, have you "done your homework" to know if engines are blowing up right, and left caused by hard break-ins?
Don't you think motoman's website would be barraged with complaints because people followed his procedure, and now own a boat anchor? Don't you think M/M would shut down part of his website about his break-in procedure if it was harming the product?
I've been doing this practice (break-in) long before I heard about M/M or the internet.
Take today for example. Brand new out of the box gas driven spray washer. Were the rings dry because there wasn't oil in the crankcase? Did they have enough oil on assembly, or were the rings not seated in? It sure pulled easy with slight compression. I'll get back to that...
Lawnmower engines pretty much have a locked throttle. Set it for a certain speed, and let the governor fluctuate the rpm's. Other than that, once the throttle is set, lawnmower engines live at one steady rpm. Where are the Briggs failures with one sustained rpm? I don't see the logic where there is going to be "so and so" harm if you sustain one speed on break-in? It just doesn't work like that. Parts float between a layer of oil. The parts don't care what speed the engine stays at. As each engine-hour goes by, the bike slowly wears out...look at it that way. One sustained speed will not cause a wear pattern. Remember the layer of oil lubes at all rpms... be it splash, or pressurized.
How about all the racing engines placed on a dyno? No time to put the bike on the street to get a few hundred miles to break it in. Hey, if they blow up, something was not inspected/measured right, assembled incorrectly, or made enough hp to bust a weak (OEM) part. Other than that, I don't see those bikes smoking (from ring damage) down the track because they weren't....quote "broken in" with more hours on it?
Back to the Briggs. I take my time spraying the vehicle. The Briggs throttle is WOT right after enough cylinder wall expansion. I turn the engine off and finish washing. I go to light off the sprayer, and I could tell right off the starter cord was much harder to pull. Was it because the engine was still warm, and everything expanded to sealed better... was it because crankcase oil was finally lubing the rings...or was it because I set the throttle at WOT and got a good ring seal by hammering the cylinder walls right off the bat?
I just came from the garage to test not for me fish, but for you. I pulled the dip stick and smelled for scored aluminum, or steel metal burn. Not one hint of a burnt odor. Not any kind of fuel smell mixed with the oil either. I also checked for any puff of smoke upon start up. It was dead cold. Not a puff! Not even enough prime to burn a black rich soot. Lots more compression than that very first pull.
M/M's methods are no different than running up an engine on a dyno.
Tell you what, I will give you (not literally) my bike as a "Test Mule." I'll break it in the way I break-in all my bikes...Hard! Let's see months down the road what happens to my bike? I'll do an extensive procedure. How about a leak-down test before and after? I'll take a hand compression test just for fun as well. My guess is a 2% leak-down on a (cold) engine before one mile is on it. After I beat the living shit out of the engine putting under 30 miles on the break-in run, I expect to see a 1% leak-down result when all is said and done.
I'd like to also say that I've owned a few brand new bikes. None were ever broken-in on a dyno. They were... let's say on the street, broken-in as if on a dyno. Never a had a scored piston, lower end failure, in fact, I've never (personally) experienced engine damage from these type break-ins.
Common knowledge say that you don't hammer a cold engine... Let the piston grow faster than the cylinder walls and yes, you will transfer aluminum to the cylinder wall. Was that why you heard people having bad results the M/M way fish?
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MadMike
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posted January 31, 2006 10:29 AM
my friend of mine broke his brand new ZX9R in the M/M way and I broke my 12 in to mfg specs, even when they changed them to 2k miles.. with only 1 romp at about the 1300 mile section. as you see above 163Hp completly stock. in chicago at night in June/July at the Prostar race, Rickey G and a bunch of others were my witness...
My friend on the other hand broke his in the M/M way and it smoked a little bit On hard starts and stops.. and as he said just never felt 100%, he rode other ZX9's and he could tell something was different... at the dragstrip he did some testing with his 9 and another and his was 1-2mph down.
So what does this tell me. will an engine last doing the M/M way, yep probably, will it be at 100% no I dont believe so. and when your racing any type you want 100%, I am glad that I broke my motor in the way that I did!
Mad Mike
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speedgene
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posted January 31, 2006 10:51 AM
speed says, "I've been doing this practice (break-in) long before I heard about M/M or the internet."
M/M and I are basically in the same ball park. I do mine a little different, but basically, the bike is not baby'd first day out of the gate.
Again, personally I've had very good results.
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