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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: ABS? good for sportriders? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY

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posted October 21, 2005 09:42 PM        
ABS? good for sportriders?

Please tell me if this ABS is a good thing for guys that go to the track/carve canyons. Some are gonna lighten this monster up and ride the hell out of it, will ABS help or hinder? Please school the young Kawi fan.

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Needs a job
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posted October 21, 2005 09:57 PM        Edited By: trenace on 22 Oct 2005 23:20
Well, possibly and certainly in some cases two different things to talk about the principle of ABS and the actuality of any given system.

It would be difficult I think to speak rationally against a system that did nothing whatsoever except keep the caliper force no higher than the maximum the front end can accept at each given moment. Why would one want to apply more force than the front end can accept?

However, no system yet I think is so transparent as to do nothing besides that.

Some systems might, hypothetically, release brake pressure when the front tire is not yet actually at maximum braking force yet. Why it would make that blunder I don't know, but hypothetically.

A system might also be slower to reinstate full braking than it ought to be, though again why a system should be slower than human reflexes, about 0.1 sec, I don't know.

Certainly a system might, if servo based, be grabby. It might have poor feel.

It's an interesting subject psychologically as well.

For example on another board (non-ZX) this same question was raised. Now the psychology there is quite different than here. No offense intended to them but my take for the differing average psychology is that riding a bike that is slower and older, they can tend to be quite defensive and are much more prone to posturing. So anyhow one of them expressed opposition to ABS. I asked absolutely perfectly politely about what percentage brake his bike was able to take at full lean on average pavement and average conditions, compared to straight up and down. That's it, nothing but the question.


Crap about how I needed to meet him at the winding road that starts at the end of his driveway, who am I to dare think I can judge him and his abilities, yadda yadda yadda, making himself the big man, never answering the question, nothing but evasion and posturing and maybe even hostility.

My conclusion?

Most likely explanation is the guy had no idea how much brakes his bike could take at full lean.

Now, asking the question I didn't know whether he might have a good handle on it or not, but if he had a very low figure or alternately said plainly he didn't know, I would have said that could be an illustration of how ABS at least in principle could be of value, because someday ABS will likely be improved to the point where it will enable grabbing all the front brake you want at full lean and the system will give the hardest braking that the bike can take while not losing the front end. So whether the rider knows or not exactly how much brake the front can take at any given instant, he could still get that full amount, which could be a good thing. If any of the systems are all the way there yet I didn't know that, but there seems no reason it may not someday be the case.

Anyway, will the Kawasaki system impair sport riding? Probably not, unless it's a grabby or lurchy servo system perhaps. Will it be preferred by most sport riders vs not having the ABS? Probably not unless it's better than any current system. Chances are it will be a little more intrusive than I described as the ideal. Maybe only very slightly and not importantly, or maybe enough to be annoying. No one will know till it comes out, but being 2006 they ought to have it where it isn't bad I would hope.

But if it, or another system, were never to do anything except prevent caliper force from exceeding the maximum the front end can take, while allowing that maximum to be achieved and not impairing feel, it's hard to see the reason to be opposed to that (other than posturing.)

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ninja rider

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Posts: 100
posted October 22, 2005 01:37 AM        
In a recent test conducted by a leading German magazine, ABS systems showed some clear advantages over standard brakes.

The final conclusion was that, even for very experienced riders, the ABS systems shortened braking distances by a considerable margin regardless of the condition (wet or dry) of the road. Only top race pilots could outbrake the ABS sysytems with standard brakes by a small margin.

As much as any of us wants to believe that we can ride our bikes and use our brakes the same way as Valentino, Max or Nickey do , this is not the case and for the majority of us ABS offers some clear advantages whether we like to admit it or not.

Ninja Rider
Don't lie, cheat or steal, the government doesn't want any competition

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Posts: 4590
posted October 22, 2005 03:44 AM        
I wasnt a fan of the LBS on the XX, ymmv. I can see distinct advantages with ABS in panic situations on less than stellar road conditions.
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
posted October 22, 2005 08:54 AM        
It will definately be good for street riders!!!...Good for bracket racers too, slamming the brakes on just before the finish knowing that there wont be anymore front wheel lockups...
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars

*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****

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posted October 23, 2005 12:28 PM        
Do we know for sure yet that it will be optional or standard on the US version ???
"Look at Dad, trying to look young again."

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Needs a job
Posts: 3056
posted October 23, 2005 12:39 PM        Edited By: trenace on 23 Oct 2005 13:45
It's almost certainly not mandatory in the US, as the Kawasaki webpage does not show it on the bikes pictured nor is it mentioned in the text.

It's not clear to me that it's optional in the US, as that isn't stated on the US webpage.

BTW, irrelevant to the brakes, but noticed it just now while checking that: the webpage claims the frame is 4 lb lighter due to solid-mounting of the engine adding stiffness (I suppose they mean the front mount is now more than merely a hanger.) The fully solid mounting was enabled by dual balancers, so actually I suppose the net savings was less than 4 lb, as two balancers probably weigh more than the previous single balancer.

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