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posted September 30, 2005 03:34 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 30 Sep 2005 19:16
Bikeland Confirms Kawasaki's Plans to Release ZX-12R and ZRX1200 in Europe for 2006
 In an apparent "about face", KHI has contradicted it's earlier statement with regards to the end of the ZRX and ZX-12R model lines. The rumored change in policy was brought to our attention by readers of this website in the form of an apparent photograph of a 2006 ZX-12R.
Bikeland.org contacted Russ Brenan, Media Supervisor with Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A. in Irvine, California to ask for clarification with regards to this development.
Bikeland: It appears that Kawasaki Motors Europe intends to offer the ZX-12R in their 2006 model lineup, contrary to what was previously stated by KMC, is this true?
KMC: KMEU, Kawasaki Motors Europe N.V., will be offering a ZX-12R in their markets for model year 2006. The 2006 ZX-12R model will have the same features and specifications as the 2005 model and be offered in Metallic Spark Black.
Bikeland: Can you also now confirm the availability of the ZRX and the ZZR1200 in Europe, or will those models remain discontinued?
KMC: KMC has confirmed that KMEU will also offer a ZRX1200 in their markets for 2006 also. The ZZR-1200 will no longer be available in either the U.S. market or the European Union.
Bikeland: Does KMC now have any plans to include the ZX-12R in it's 06 lineup?
KMC: KMC has announced its complete 2006 model line, including exciting new models like the all-new ZX-10R and ZX-14, there are no plans to offer the ZX-12R for the upcoming model year.
Bikeland: Can you elaborate as to why this model has now been included in the 2006 lineup when before KMC stated it was dropped globally?
KMC: As a distributor of Kawasaki products for the United States (excluding Hawaii, a separate distributor handles distribution for the islands), we only focus on the models we will distribute. For model year 2006, the ZX-12R, ZRX1200 and ZZR-1200 have been discontinued by KHI for our market. The other distributors request models that are best suited for their market place based on dealer and consumer demand, as a result they may choose to offer a product that is not available in the United States or other markets, or as in this case they may offer a model for additional seasons that has been removed from another distributors line.
Bikeland: If KMC is not distributing these models, are these "Euro" versions going to be available in North America through CKM, Canadian Kawasaki Motors?
KMC: CKM, Canadian Kawasaki Motors, will be introducing their 2006 line shortly and as a result Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A. has not yet been made aware if this model will be offered in Canada.
Bikeland has been unable to contact CKM at this time, but was able to contact a Canadian Kawasaki Dealer who did confirm that there were no 1200's available in the order list for CKM product.
Source: Bikeland.org
   
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beansbaxter
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posted September 30, 2005 04:01 PM
geez.
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k bryant
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posted September 30, 2005 05:16 PM
Interesting.
Though all together different, it reminds me of trying to make products on a "Pilot" bike or a "Pre-Production" bike, both of which can be different from actual "Production" bikes. I've done that with several manufactures, and it can cause some headaches when making tooling and/or fixtures on certain parts.....
Anyway, would we really have a market here for both the 12 & 14? Don't think so...
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beansbaxter
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posted September 30, 2005 06:41 PM
Is this because Europe does not get a ZX version of the 14, rather a ZZR. In order to keep a ZX Ninja in Europe of the big engine kind, the 12R becomes an easy choice.
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fish_antlers
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posted September 30, 2005 06:43 PM
dont think so... Europe's "ZZR-1400" is a "ZX-14"... remember about how they werent accurate about that?
But hey! What's in a name :P !
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trenace
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posted September 30, 2005 06:57 PM
Perhaps it comes down to profitability occurring at some but not all sales volumes.
E.g., if 10,000 of a given bike are demanded per year by a given market, produce it.
Of if 100 are demanded and the parts are all already made, produce it.
But if 500 would be demanded but this would require new runs of most of the parts, that is not profitable, it is better not to bother doing it at all (or at least would not be profitable at the price people expect to pay.)
It could be that the number of remaining parts matches up pretty well with an extra year's run in Europe but not worldwide.
A completely different factor could be estimated effect on market confusion. Offering the consumer too many choices does not, contrary what one might intuitively think, cause greater customer happiness, greater total sales, or greater profits. It might be the case that in the US it was considered that the ZX-14 must be presented as the successor to the ZX-12R for best success, whereas perhaps in Europe that was not felt necessary, due to differing buyer psychology or market preferences.
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Ra12r
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posted September 30, 2005 07:41 PM
I think it is almost poet justice for the current information to come through one of the board members. All that says is that the EGO is a tremendous thing. Special non disclosure contracts and whatever else that has actually translated into being LATE and WRONG about most things Kawasaki.
I think before those "IN CONTRACT" decide to argue, as they did the above information and the zx14, they should ask some "regular" members what the deal is rather than look stupid twice times in one month. I am no longer confident in bikelands press releases, they have been straight WRONG twice.
PS. I hope this site didn't pay to get a "non disclosure" contract, cause KMI isn't disclosing much of anything...........ie the name "non disclosure"....... hahahahaha
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aughtsix
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posted September 30, 2005 09:12 PM
I think it could very well be an interesting outcome...
In '06, apparently the Europeans will have a choice...
How many Europeans will choose the 14...
How many will choose the 12r.
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aughtsix
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posted September 30, 2005 09:14 PM
RA - Why do you think the expression is, to be 'bound' by a contract.
Don't be so narrowly focused...
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fish_antlers
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posted September 30, 2005 11:20 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 1 Oct 2005 00:43
quote:
I think it is almost poet justice for the current information to come through one of the board members. All that says is that the EGO is a tremendous thing. Special non disclosure contracts and whatever else that has actually translated into being LATE and WRONG about most things Kawasaki.
I think before those "IN CONTRACT" decide to argue, as they did the above information and the zx14, they should ask some "regular" members what the deal is rather than look stupid twice times in one month. I am no longer confident in bikelands press releases, they have been straight WRONG twice.
PS. I hope this site didn't pay to get a "non disclosure" contract, cause KMI isn't disclosing much of anything...........ie the name "non disclosure"....... hahahahaha
Ra... yer way off base..  The information that is contained in this post has nothing to do with contracts, timelines or agreements. The story is comprised of direct quotes from an interview with KMC's public relations department. The same goes for the previous related story.
If you have a question or concern you are free to contact KMC and the source directly quoted, their official spokesman. All that Bikeland is doing is presenting the information it has been provided by KMC.
If you have a problem with the accuracy of the information I suggest you contact KMC and the fellow in charge of handing out the information to the public. We would have no problem with members of this site questioning the accuracy of the information KMC is releasing to the public. KMC is being quoted direclty with names so there is no confusion as to who is stating what.
There is nothing "secret" or "covert" in either this story or the one it relates to. All of the names and sources are out in the public for everyone to read....
... yes.. even you Ra
Ra.. I am sorry that you feel "hurt" and "wronged" that KMC has not been honest with you.
... and we have not "been wrong twice" ... twit.
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trenace
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posted October 01, 2005 03:20 AM
Edited By: trenace on 1 Oct 2005 04:52
Well, not that I would choose to bring it up on my own again as this was all hashed out before and I had thought that the editors admitted having been wrong or putting out wrong info or "between the lines" suggestions on two recent bikes just as Ra says, but what with your now specifically denying it, then here's the refresher:
1) In reply to and in denial of possible legitimate source of detailed, dead-correct Motorcycle News article complete with Kawasaki stock photos and very specific info that had been posted, and statement that the said MCN article, having such information released to it from Kawasaki, proved Kawasaki had released information by that date: quote:
Here... I'll quote myself so you can read what I said again... I'll even say it again in bold type to help you absorb the data...
Kawasaki has not yet released any info about the 06 ZX-10R.
Along with that specific example, actually there were many further examples of where the rest of the membership was discussing what proved in fact to be genuine Kawasaki stock photos of the 2006 ZX-10R while the Editors continued to maintain that nothing (including any pics) had been released and insisted the members were therefore discussing false rumors. This was apparently out of some bizarre conceit that if Kawasaki had released no info to them, then it could not have possibly have released any info to anyone else in the world, end of story, proof positive, quod erat demonstratum.
2) In response to the following pics and opinion given of being the real release for 2006, the following quote, which also was reiterated several times after this:
quote:
quote:
Crystal ball says "That is not the bike". Stay tuned for real information on product releases.
As we are not in the business of spreading false rumors, this topic is closed.
and again in reference to pics that proved to be Kawasaki stock photos:
quote:
You're all barking up the wrong tree.
Denying reality twice (in the case of the 10 and 14) and then denying the reality that you denied the reality, plus calling the person correctingly saying so a "twit" for having said so, does seem to show some disconnect from reality unfortunately... one would certainly hope it won't be a continuing trend but only some unusual though recently continuing aberration. Bizarre stuff, though it's true that there are some people that just won't admit error and basically will deny it not matter what, so it's also possible it might be a trend. Impossible to say really except over more time. Whatever, what there certainly ISN'T a trend so far with, in this matter, is owning up to mistakes. I see only an attitude apparently dripping with condescension to others ("I'll even say it again in bold type to help you absorb the data," "perhaps a course in semantics is due,"
"twit", etc.) while oneself being the repeatedly factually wrong party, how ironic.
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ra12r
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posted October 01, 2005 06:05 AM
I don't have any feelings about the information or KMI. They have a right to do what they want. Until the showrooms are selling, I am just watching and reading. It may change again, and I still would have no feelings. But I do FEEL this, "I feel that you, the EDITOR..."FISH" has made your own "PRESS RELEASES" look stupid. Just make the press releases without all that extra control before the releases. You should only be posting releases, not commentaries from the Editor about who's right and who's wrong regarding KMI information.
Besides there was a winner to your spy photo contest and early information regarding the zx14, and I saw where you DENIED the guy the victory. That carried with it NO INTEGRITY!!! Besides you say you are only "re posting" information from KMI, well why don't you use some journalism and research your information.
Aughtsix, to be "bound by a contract" does not mean to be condensending to others that post information prior to bikeland getting information. To be "bound by contract" does not mean to berrate and refute information (ie new zx14 photos, zx12 continued release in europe...) and then be TOTALLY WRONG. That is not even "narrowly focused", that is "Arrogantly focused". Somehow I still believe this is connected with the "little dick" syndrome that was the root behind bikeland.org vs zx-12r.org. Everyone trying to one up someone else, when no one really cared anyway. I personally enjoy the BIKE and sharing info about the BIKE. The rest here is simply a real distraction, especially when the Editor keeps misleading us away from accurate information.
FISH.......... STOP POSTING "AGAINST" STUFF YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT!!! That is to be ignorant. You can be a much better Editor if you get your EGO out of the way.
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238mph
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posted October 01, 2005 07:56 AM
I agree wit Ra in that to deny a couple of T-shits was pretty low... especially when you
guys started the contest!!! WTF???
But Tren said it best, with a slight twist... hahahaha maybe it was an aberration...or a ghost,
or simply a figment of our imagination!!! 
After all... have you SEEN one???
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fish_antlers
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posted October 01, 2005 09:05 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 1 Oct 2005 10:13
okay...
point by point here there are 4 different things being discussed,
The first point is with regards to the 10 & the 14, which we could not discuss, and we've gone over this before. It's pretty clear what happened, and that's been discussed several times on this site. There is an entire thread related to it so I'm not going to go over it again. Everthing that needs to be said about those releases by us has already been said.
The second point is with regards to shirts, and I dont see how anyone here has been "denied" shirts, they havent been awarded yet! All of the intros have not yet taken place, and we have clearly stated that the winners will be determined after (I believe) MIlan's show.
The Third point, and what we should be talking about, without getting sidelined, are these two releases...
This one: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=23&TID=19238 and the one you are posting in right now.
The statements that Ra has made are once again totally innaccurate. There is no "ego" involved in a verbatum transcript of an interview which conatins information which has been approved and released by KMC. All we are doing is simply reporting the facts, who said what and when.
In the case of these two releases, if the information in the first one is wrong, then you should contact KMC and ask them why they are making inaccurate and misleading public statements and leave us out of it! Will you wrtite the same complaint in this thread to Cycleworld and MCN and all the other publications who, unless they had time to stop the presses, will have reported KMC's "facts"? It would only be fair.
So to recap...
- 10 & 14 have already been discussed. Totally different situation dealing with pre-release contracts... nothing to do with this whatsoever
- shirts have yet to be awarded as all dealer intros have yet to happen
- ZRX and ZX-12R ... call or email KMC and ask them why they gave out information that wasnt accurate...
Now that Ra has managed to sidetrack everyone here... I am interested in the "timing" of this second public statement by KMC... Has anyone considered that perhaps the first release was accurate? What happened between then and now to make them want to keep those models in the lineup? Global reaction to the new models? Would that be enough for them to come back 3 weeks later and suddenly say... "hey.. ya know those bikes that were gone? they're back now!"
..PS.. I still think Ra is a twit... and it is because of this statement he makes...
quote:
You should only be posting releases, not commentaries from the Editor about who's right and who's wrong regarding KMI information.
The two releases in question, once again, contain no "commentaries" and only report facts. Ra is defeating his own arguement.
Thanks Ra! 
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aughtsix
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posted October 01, 2005 09:19 AM
quote:
Aughtsix, to be "bound by a contract" does not mean to be condensending to others that post information prior to bikeland getting information. To be "bound by contract" does not mean to berrate and refute information (ie new zx14 photos, zx12 continued release in europe...) and then be TOTALLY WRONG.
Ra - I apparently didn't express myself very well, so, let me try again...
What I meant when I put the word "bound" in quotation marks rather than the phrase "bound by contract" is simply that being bound implies not being free.
In other words, if Bikeland was given information by Ma Kawi they couldn't feel free to go off willy-nilly by-guessing and by-gollying whatever they wished. We could. So, conversely, shouldn't you get equally angry with those who, not being bound, went off half-cocked? You can't pull on both ends of the same rope and reasonably expect a productive outcome...
YMMV.
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fish_antlers
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posted October 01, 2005 09:48 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 1 Oct 2005 10:49
One last point I'd like to make and then I'm done...
You're watching NBC or whatever and they interview a politician or police officier or someone else who makes an official statement on behalf of their company or department.
Then three weeks later they interview that same person and they've totally contradicted themselves...
So at this point instead of being pissed of at the guy who is making the statements, and the company he represents, you get angry at NBC?
Perhaps that will clear this up.
I'm off to work. Later!
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12r1
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posted October 01, 2005 12:26 PM
You must really like these guys, Fish, by not tellin' both to just fuck off.
You provide a huge service and entertainement here, and they bust your balls over bullshit like that. Let em go figure out on thier own, what new bikes are coming and when.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted October 01, 2005 03:11 PM
lmfao@ this thread.......Fishy, son dont waste your time.......
just keep on giving us the info as you get it. And we the masses will enjoy all of it.....
And I think i wont a tshirt from some contest you all were giving...so send me my XL long sleve in the mail, I will send you the addy via PM.....lol
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12r1
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posted October 01, 2005 05:05 PM
'zactly.
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Ra12r
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posted October 01, 2005 07:37 PM
Fish, I like your website as my presence since the beginning says so. I really didn't care either way, as I just watch things as they unfold untill the bike is actually being sold. As Editor however, you got way to protective and involved in the "chat room".
Yeah, I noticed that after "THE GUYS" were not happy with the loss of the zx12 that it is back. But, until it really happens, well........... it is just another press release and we know how accurate they have been.
I was serious about the T-shirts!!!!!! That kinda stuff is important to us members..........hahaha
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tinhead
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posted October 02, 2005 03:16 PM
quote:
What happened between then and now to make them want to keep those models in the lineup? Global reaction to the new models? Would that be enough for them to come back 3 weeks later and suddenly say... "hey.. ya know those bikes that were gone? they're back now!"
Probably the European Market Sales Projections from Kawasaki matched well with the leftover numbers of '05 units worldwide.....
Any '05's that aren't sold in Europe as '06's might well be available in Canada as '07's.
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brain
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posted October 02, 2005 03:49 PM
Maybe Kawasaki is pulling a fast one on everybody.They have the whole world buzzing about the zz14-zx14 and are waiting to release the real replacement for the 12r until Suzuki releases the new Hayabusa.We can only hope
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MAXIMUS
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posted October 04, 2005 04:53 PM
Cant we all just get along!
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MAXIMUS
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posted October 04, 2005 09:18 PM
Who cares , we are in the USA, we wont get the new ZX12R, so i guess it doesnt matter it looks like we are stuck with the new 14. Unless someone at kawasaki pulls their head out of their ass!
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DB
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posted October 05, 2005 08:48 AM
quote:
it looks like we are stuck with the new 14
If the 14 turns out to be the fastest in the land for 06 then kawasaki won't have any problems selling them. Like the hayabusa, in MOST peoples eyes they are UGLY, but they sell. Why? Because most magazines say they are the fastest. (note: I'm not saying that - the mags are or have been)
Basically, don't like the 14? Then don't buy it. There are alot of other bikes out there, I'm sure you can find something you like. If not, buy a Kia.
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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