Lanceromance
Parking Attendant
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posted July 31, 2008 07:04 PM
When will Honda compete with the Busa & ZX14?
As much as I like both the Busa and ZX14 it would really be nice to have a wider selection in the big bore category. I'm 6'1" 290lbs bodybuilder and I just don't look right sitting on the 1000's. I'm sure outta business reasons Honda and Yamaha have chosen not to enter into the hyper bike categories but from a consumer stand point it sure would be nice to have a wider selection.
  
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fish_antlers
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posted July 31, 2008 08:13 PM
good question... a lot of people are looking for honda to answer - bring back the black bird...
yamaha's been out for a while too... 
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted August 02, 2008 07:10 AM
Blackbird ruled its roost well in its time. Hell, even when the Busa came out the 'Bird was known as the better handling all around bike. I haven't seen one of those in at least a year...
Imagine a Blackbird based off the 1000RR engine, say a 1200cc engine just to poke Kawi in the eye for upping the displacement war, and since it would be based off the RR make it a even 200 hp. Using a stretched version of the RR for its chassis, too. With a dry weight of 475 pounds or so. Man I'm giving myself goosebumps thinking about it.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted August 03, 2008 09:30 AM
There have been strong rumors of a new XX for years. None come to bear yet obviously. Indeed, would be nice to have another option.
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CrotchRocket
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posted August 05, 2008 06:45 AM
Each company knows their place as the Japanese cover all the bases, that's how they will survive without wasting $$$
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NinjaNick
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posted August 07, 2008 09:26 PM
Blackbirds were ugly as SIN!
They need to develop a big bore that has style. I'd love it if they did.
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aliveagain
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posted August 12, 2008 05:27 PM
Big bores are a dieing breed.Why should Honda waste their money on something that is currently being equalled by a 1000cc lighter bike.the only place where the busa or 14 have an edge is when going extreme and even then they are not out of reach.I bet few big bores are used as a roadracer.In drag racing, the average person will et race and those that turbo,getting over 300-400hp to the ground is hard.So exactly,where would the market be?
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Lanceromance
Parking Attendant
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posted August 16, 2008 07:55 PM
Well I would have to respectfully disagree. Big Bores are a high profit margin bike for Kaw and Suzuki due to the fact that there development cycles are not as short as the 1000's. Also the fact that the 1000's are keeping up with the big bikes is just another reason for Honda or Yamaha to enter that game. Create a big bore that will put the motorcycle world on it's ear like the original Hayabusa and you will create a sales success. If I was Honda or Yamaha I would introduce a 1500cc or higher , and give it something unique like oval pistons or pneumatic vales (even if it doesn't contribute to higher performance it tends to create sales, im in retail..it works!) price it $12k - $18k due to better running gear, lighter weight, more power, programable traction control (something like Ducati's DDA would be nice too), different ECU maps (ie. suzuki), and people will buy it. Even at the higher price range. I know I would happily pony up more $$ for a big bore that had the technological advancements that the race replicas are currently offering. Not to mention the fact that I'm sick of seeing soo many Hayabusas on the road (I love the bike but too many damn people have em) that something in a higher price/performance bracket might attract people to it's more exclusivity.
In addition I know that people are going to say, "The speed wars are over..why build more hyper bikes?" Cause even if the bikes are limited to 186 mph... the rear wheel HP alone will sell the bikes. Besides every magazine issues articles on how they derestrict the bike (ie. speedo heelers, TRE) and then test it's true top speed. If they build it..they will come.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted August 16, 2008 08:34 PM
One thing I'm not convinced about... you say the profit margin is high cause of reduced cycle time... certainly that's a huge factor, but I suspect an even bigger factor is the # of units sold, and I'm pretty sure big bore bike sales trail liter bikes by some margin. QUesiton is, is it less than half? if so, then that double development cycle advantage is gone.
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Lanceromance
Parking Attendant
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posted August 16, 2008 08:44 PM
According to an article in Sport Rider (I think) the Suzuki Hayabusa has outsold ALL their sportbikes since it's introduction (not saying it's thier best selling bike, but best selling SportBike) and even more important is that sales have increased EVERY year since it's introduction. If I remember it's 10,000 units/year which was compared to the ZX-14 at 5,000 units/year in it's initial production year (which is typically the best). Remember the R&D that is used on a new big bore bike can also be trickled down to other bikes to amortized the cost of smaller bikes..1000rr, cbr600rr..also a "muscle bike" like the B-King or cruisers. The scales of economy are there if the marketing of the other bikes (trickle down bikes) turn into good sellers works.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted August 16, 2008 10:08 PM
Interesting about the numbers for the busa. Very surprising really, tho I have to admit you see alot of them, even now, every big event like Laguna Seca MotoGP.
And of course you're quite correct about the big bores traditioanlly being flagship models that were technology demonstrators before they made their way to the liter bikes... but seems to me these days the literbikes are becoming the flagships, so lately at least, that hasnt been true. If bigbore competition starts up proper again tho, that could quickly change for sure.
One thing about hte bigbore is dead comment where I woudl disagree... is that despite the similar power put out by literbikes, those things are not exactly good sport tourers, whereas the big bikes are more comfortable to ride, and real easy on the highway, and just easy to ride long distances with all that torque rumbling along easy. It's not just about power.
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aliveagain
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posted August 19, 2008 06:05 AM
#'s are deceiving. The hayabusa may have a high profit margin on it but that would come from not having any big changes in the last ten years.Trickle down theory,I think not. The 2008 hayabusa got the 3 setting power switch from the smaller bikes.Any technology would come from their race bikes.
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BobC
Pro
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posted August 20, 2008 06:04 AM
I doubt if Honda will compete in the Hayabusa/ZX-14 sector of the motorcycle market. The Blackbird is dead and gone. Look out for a new V-5 motor next year though which could provide some excitement.
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stevewfl
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posted August 29, 2008 09:20 AM
quote:
Blackbirds were ugly as SIN!
and the current big bikes are "cute"!?, they're fugly as hell!
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted September 01, 2008 10:32 AM
Steve they're not fugly, they are "distinct" and "unique", didn't you read the Kawi brochure?!?! lol at least no rider will ever question what kind of bike he just saw, unlike the current 1000's that if you put a different paint job and manufacturers stickers on it most wouldnt know until they got a up close look. Then most riders still wouldnt be sure of exactly what is was! Good luck putting a zx14 badge on a 'Busa, even grandma's would be shaking there head at you. lol "brand recognition" at work.
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smokinzx14
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posted September 02, 2008 05:47 PM
I want a CBXX six banger with 1500 cc and while you are at it make it under 500 pounds and 62 inch wheel base ... Not much to ask is it ?
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fish_antlers
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posted September 02, 2008 07:22 PM
would be nice if something shook up the 2 horse race we have right now.
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Lanceromance
Parking Attendant
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posted October 05, 2008 08:47 PM
quote:
would be nice if something shook up the 2 horse race we have right now.
My thoughts exactly!! I would love it if SOMEBODY came out with a big bore that was unique and knocked the motorcycling world on its ear. I'm ready for something totally new.
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1200cc
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posted October 09, 2008 06:51 AM
I also think that BMW could enter this war, they've been working on some new modles in the past that have come out of the box pretty strong... I think that yamaha will stick with there VMAX for a while. I had a Blackbird for 3 years & loved it, but my 14 has been the best yet for me.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted October 09, 2008 08:57 AM
 Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 9 Oct 2008 16:59
BMW guys around where I live have been bragging the new K1300S will be a direct competitor powerwise to the 14 and Busa. 175hp claimed, but shaft drive so figure maybe 150rwhp. Maybe. Would give the Concourse 14 a run for its money, but any 1000 would flog it in a straight line, not to mention what the zx14 and Busa would do to it!
Getting closer though, few more years and they will have it I think. Just about the time Kawi and Suzi come out with there next models of Open Class Nirvana. 
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SteveWFL
Moderator
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posted October 09, 2008 02:49 PM
quote:
I want a CBXX six banger with 1500 cc and while you are at it make it under 500 pounds and 62 inch wheel base ... Not much to ask is it ?
make that long wheelbase "optional" please :P
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gilberjj
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posted October 13, 2008 12:39 AM
im all for yamaha and honda entering the hyperbike catagory. competition fuels progress!
also, here is some food for thought
even if kawi and suzuki aren't selling as many hyper bikes as liter bikes, their profit margins are going to be higher, and here is why. They don't have near the R&D dollars invested into the 14 and busa as they do in the liter bikes. The liter bikes have much tighter competition, and they can't afford to make a bike and sell the same bike year after year. The 14 and busa don't get those same revisions year after year.
Let's see...... Honda 1400xx Blackbird.... or maybe the Yamaha r2
I kinda like the sound of the r2 (as in 2000cc's!!!!!). BRING IT ON YAMI
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flite leader
Zone Head
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posted October 14, 2008 09:58 AM
they could but they wont
they have always built what i call a 9/10 bike
even the new cb1000rr is down at least 15 HP
that last 1/10
of course they maintain reliabilty & almost any tuner can get that last little bit
the other thing is they DONT want to get into HP wars
that got the busa & 12's plums snipped
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fbrr
Parking Attendant
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posted October 18, 2008 03:06 PM
"Would give the Concourse 14 a run for its money, "
Yea! Right up to the point it's BMW driveshaft breaks!!!
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted October 19, 2008 01:35 AM
quote:
they could but they wont
they have always built what i call a 9/10 bike
even the new cb1000rr is down at least 15 HP
that last 1/10
of course they maintain reliabilty & almost any tuner can get that last little bit
the other thing is they DONT want to get into HP wars
that got the busa & 12's plums snipped
In the hyperbike wars the only 2 competitors left standing have spent the last decade dragging their proverbial dicks in the dirt. One just matches or barely beats the other in whats supposed to be the "unlimited" Big Dog class. More like nuetered class. I'd be dropping bombs tech and power wise every 4 years.....or at least one big-ass 8 year bomb like suzuki did with the orignal busa. The bikes are still fast as hell tho....and big brother hasn't ruled them out of existence yet, so I won't whine anymore 
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