fish_antlers
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The Truth is Out There
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posted August 26, 2004 04:57 PM
Undertail exhaust a cheap cop-out?
After 10R owners were beseiged by KMC's marketing surveyors repeatedly asking them if they "wished they had an undertail exhaust".... (We answered a resounding NO!)
they turn around and produce what has already been described as a knock-off of a CBR.... which we all know is just a knock off of a Ducati..
so what is up with the boys in Japan? Must they copy everything? Is there no originality? They've had a hard on for an undertail.. so there it is...
If I wanted an undertail, I'd go buy an old 916.
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sp500
Expert Class
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posted August 26, 2004 06:32 PM
or an MV Augusta
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04 ZX10R
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worm~hole
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posted August 31, 2004 07:34 AM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 31 Aug 2004 09:00
Why would undertail exhaust be a knock-off of Ducati?...its like saying Dunlop is a knock-off of Michelin...or Muzzy is a knock-off of Moko...
Did Ducati patent the undertail exhaust style?...
Why isn't anyone saying that the MV F 750/1000's exhaust is a knock-off of the Ducati?...
There's only one way to design and implement an undertail exhaust, that is, to put it under the tail...just as there is only one way to design and implement a side exiting exhaust, that is, to put it on the side...geniuses 
We could say that Ducati is a knock-off of the GP bike's undertail exhausts, but I haven't really heard much of that...probably due in large part to Ducatista snobbery and arrogance...
Ducati did, however, apply and popularize the GP undertail exhaust routing technology to the street bike...probably more as styling lick (nothing inherently 'wrong' with side mounted exhaust with adequate up-sweep except for its vulnerability to damage on a tip-over, right?)
Knock off, schnock-off....hey, just fuck off  ...I personally think that the undertail exhaust, WHEN DONE RIGHT WITH THE RIGHT ASTHETICS AND PANACHE, look downright sexy...and only ONE mfg has it right (never mind that people talk about how UT exhausts roasts yer' ass and nuts)...MV Augusta and their F750/1000 is THE ONE...the Ducati MultiStrada tail looks cool, too, but the front end is as Hyabuttugly as the buttend of the Busa...
Ack!!!...whadda eye know?...I like the Monster S4's twin-stacked exhaust, too!
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
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who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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worm~hole
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posted August 31, 2004 07:48 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 31 Aug 2004 08:50
OH LOOK!..ZX-10R has a 'banana shaped swing arm'!...musta' knocked it off the Yamahas...or was it the Suzuki?...Honda?...Aprila?...or a BANANA???...DAMN!!!!...how do we design a different looking banana?
AND LOOK!...Ducati went to the double-sided swing-arm!!!...musta' knocked it off the Japanese bikes...what'll we do, what'll we do?????....and Triumph knocked off the the Ducati's AND RC51's single sided swingarm (or was it the other way around???)....aye yai yai...so many knock-offs out there...I think I'll go ride my bicycle now...BUT IT HAS TWO WHEELS!!!!...and its a knock-off of something, I'm sure!!!!!
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
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swft
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posted August 31, 2004 09:57 AM
I think Wormy needs to knock off the caffeine a bit... 
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fish_antlers
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posted August 31, 2004 04:21 PM
uh... worm.. that would apply if they'd have made an undertail years ago... but it's not the case... what's happening (and we already know it because of the market survey questions KMC asked members of this site) is that KMC is simply pushing for an undertail exhaust because it's "trendy". We already know undertails weigh more and make less power.. so why bother on a "performance" machine?? If I was a race team and I was racin the new 6R I'd be lookin hard at how to retrofit a "real" or "normal" (read "old school" or whatever) system in search of more ponies..
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worm~hole
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posted August 31, 2004 04:43 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 31 Aug 2004 17:44
...when was that?...not that my vote would sway anything, but I never saw that survey...was I gone?...if there was a way to keep the cats low and the pipes high, the weight issue could be a non-issue I suppose...its those heavy cats, huh?...but you would want the cats to be as close to the collector(s) as possible anyway, right?
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
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extremelean
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posted September 01, 2004 11:53 AM
The exhaust was designed with aerodynamics in mind.....designed to work with the tail section......Not a copy or a trendy thing...but a performance enhancement.....believe what you will but wind tunnels dont lie.
Read the press release....it may help with some of your issues regarding the exhaust being a "cheap cop-out".
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beansbaxter
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posted September 01, 2004 01:02 PM
I cant believe there is banana knockoffs going around the moto world now...
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fish_antlers
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posted September 01, 2004 10:55 PM
I dont know how to read
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fish_antlers
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posted September 03, 2004 09:55 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 3 Sep 2004 11:05
Actually, what I do have a hard time buying is your justification that it's an "aerodynamic performance enhancement" ... We've already hashed that topic out many years ago.. the outcome was that the aerodynamic effects of the exhaust as a sidemount vs undertail were totally insignificant...
Not like you're building a Busa or a 12R... those are FAST bikes and they dont have undertails... we're talking about a 600 ..... stick you knee out to take a corner or slouch the wrong way on the bike and you'll lose more in drag than from a sidemount pipe...
I'm a big fan of honesty. Why not honestly say "It's a new styling feature." or "We liked the looks of it" or "we always wanted to build a bike with an undertail exhaust"?
Why bother trying to justify it via aerodynamics or something? It wont fly.. people here are smarter than that.
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extremelean
Pro
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posted September 03, 2004 11:32 AM
Like I said.......wind tunnels dont lie.
try drafting this bike on the race track.....then we'll talk.
until then...stay tuned
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fish_antlers
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posted September 03, 2004 02:56 PM
why doesnt the 10R, the 12r etc etc etc and every other bike have one then? and why not 10 years ago?
my point exactly.
Undertails look nice and that's what people want.... (in the opinion of the marketing people) ...
not hard to admit, is it?
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worm~hole
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posted September 04, 2004 03:09 AM
...dude...you calling XL a liar?...I think that if its in-line, then its got to result in some kind of aero-enhancement, however apparently minute to the naked eye, over the side-mount, so XL IS being honest and factual about the mechanical aspects of the design...thus it could be an advantage in the straight line over each lap...I imagine that every tenth of second counts cumulatively at the end of the 600cc race...and who the hell sticks out their knees in a straight line to disturb the airflow unless they're setting up for a turn?...and so what if it a styling lick...better to have style than to not have style, yes?...I applaud Kawasaki for taking calculated practical and marketing risks such as these...their LCD tach gages still suck, tho
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
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worm~hole
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posted September 04, 2004 03:27 AM
...hmmm...lemme see...one dude works for kawasaki and is privvy to info....and one dude owns a website that is heavy on kawasaki product ownership...one gives out quantifiable facts and info...one merely speculates and tries to ...one shits because its the natural thing to do...one stirs up some shit because its his nature...
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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fish_antlers
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posted September 04, 2004 08:20 AM
lemme see .. dude is a wannabe and has nothing to do with motorcycling at all... owns a 10R with 1 mile on the odo... right... when I wanna know about pepperspraying rioters I'll ask you...
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worm~hole
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posted September 04, 2004 09:39 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 4 Sep 2004 10:40
...yeah right...I just buyem' and kill the batteries ...go lick yer' freekin' crystal ball...I got yer' pepperspray right here, pal...
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
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-George Orwell
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted September 04, 2004 09:46 AM
what doesn't add up and what fish is referring to, is previously there were discussions saying that the effect of a side-pipe on aero's were insignificant, and not worth the extra weight and power loss. so why has that opinion/decision changed? not to mention, if aero's were that important, then every biek would look liek the busa and have a big tail section, unlike the tiny innefficient tailsections most bikes are using these days. so the only obvious conclusion is the undertail exhaust is primarily a styling choice, which is fine, but don't tell me that's it was done for better aero's if that was just a minor factor in the decision. that's what's a bit annoying. either that, or the info we got about pipes & aero's previously was completely incorrect. so which is it?
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worm~hole
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posted September 04, 2004 12:31 PM
...who cares?...just buy what you like irregardless of technological advances or improvements or marketing hype...things change...even minds...
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
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-George Orwell
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swft
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posted September 04, 2004 06:43 PM
Fuck you piece of shit canadians. You can't build dick. Your idea of heavy industry is hauling three cases of beer in your truck...
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worm~hole
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posted September 04, 2004 08:29 PM
Bahahahahahahaha!!!!
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“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
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-George Orwell
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted September 05, 2004 04:33 PM
hey, come on now, we can build the prettiest cracking-hull aluminium ferries anywhere!!
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extremelean
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posted September 05, 2004 11:27 PM
YOU GUYS ARE KILLIN ME...........laughing my ass off!!!
I will make no more comments regarding this subject.
Wait till next years racing season.
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beyote
Parking Attendant
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posted September 06, 2004 12:17 AM
I agree w/ XL and Wormy.
That is like saying the intake on the 04 Mille is from the RC51, which would then be a knock off from the Super Mono (who actually designed the Mono and the Mille).
Craziness. It could go on and on.
Spank her once for me.
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fish_antlers
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posted September 06, 2004 08:50 AM
sorry beyote, but I have to disagree... I'm with freek on this one...
to me it speaks of a "lack of originality" ......
anyways...
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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