posted January 01, 2004 10:02 AM
I KNEW IT ......... I KNEW IT....................... Cool ...... Now I'm real excited!
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posted January 01, 2004 12:17 PM
i sure hate to say it, but from reading that the blade is probably a better bike, but i see their point abotu it not being as exciting. i guess most bikers are lookin for fun and the thrill of speed, not the technically best bike that will make it form a to b fastest. in any case, it's good to see the hype being justified for a change.
posted January 01, 2004 04:22 PM
Seems like Yamaha might be missing out on a lot of free advertisment by not allowing people to test the R1 until feburary.
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posted January 02, 2004 07:21 AM
Hard to say what's going on. In any case, I'm positive that the US mags will rate the honda on top, yamaha *might* get second, but it's handling will be 'scary' or somesuch, and they'll lambast the kawasaki for 'fit 'n finish' or some bullshit.
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted January 02, 2004 08:13 PM
Edited By: CDRacingZX10R on 2 Jan 2004 21:42
quote:Hard to say what's going on. In any case, I'm positive that the US mags will rate the honda on top, yamaha *might* get second, but it's handling will be 'scary' or somesuch, and they'll lambast the kawasaki for 'fit 'n finish' or some bullshit.
quote]
I'm not sure handling has been a big problem for Yamaha in the past.
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posted January 02, 2004 10:22 PM
No, I would certainly agree that the Yamaha's handling has not been a problem, except for those journo's who aren't expecting quick, crisp handling.
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted January 02, 2004 11:28 PM
After many hours of tweaking, adjusting and fine-tuning my R1, I am finally happy with it's handling. It is a very fast, confidence inspiring motorcycle. I also remember that Graves Motorsports was dominant in Formula Extreme when they used a R7 chassis with a R1 motor stuffed in it. When the AMA made them use at least 50% of the original R1 chassis, their domination was gone. I know that I lack the talent to load the chassis as much a Damon Buckmaster, and maybe that is why I haven't noticed any problems. But in professional racing the world over, Yamaha obviously has not been as successful as Suzuki the last few years. And I really don't think it is due to a lack of horsepower. I think Buckmaster's early season domination, shows that the R1 can make plenty of ponies.
posted January 03, 2004 01:57 AM
Edited By: CDRacingZX10R on 3 Jan 2004 02:02
I think in terms of comparing your R1 to a graves R1 is not completely out of the question in the sense that your bike for a little extra money could have handled a lot better. Simple upgrades like a rear shock made by a good company, and reworking the front forks could have made the world of difference in it's on track handling abilitys. The real money is spent on the engine. Doing as much as you can to it, without violating the AMA rules. Thats hard, and cost a lot of money. Some have complained about the R1 in the previvous years as being to street friendly and that Yamaha has strayed away from the 98 champion bike, which suspension was stiff enough to jar your teeth loose over a small crack in the road, to a soft smooth good handing street bike. It's true, I agree with that. But this year is different. I think this year all the liter bikes are throwing out the "Street" image and going for the race image. Yamaha is returning to the stiff frame it once had, by increasing it's chasis rigitidy by just under 200 percent. In my opinion I think lots of people are going to buy a 10R and an R1 and hate the bikes. Not because they arent fast as hell and corner like a mofo, but because they are track orientated bikes and most people never see the parking lot of a race track. When I got my 636 it was stiff, sometimes painful to ride on long trips, but I knew that getting in. Some of my friends ended up ditching the bike soon after getting it for a softer more comfortable Honda 600RR (Still dont know why the think it is more comfortable, that seat sucks).
As for the ponies Zeta, no bike you pick for 04 will be lacking. Rather it be Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Honda (Yes even them, just kidding), your going to have the power to keep on the straights. Supposedly, the bike hacking was running at the Daytona tire test was stock except for the addition of an aftermarket exhaust, and race tires. It was putting in times .4 seconds slower than the fastest superbikes out there. And in some cases beating the Suzuki. And the 10R, though not as impressive lap times, was still kicking ass out there for being a stock bike. And the top speeds in the 180's for all the bikes, thats just crazy. (Ya ya, I know the honda was in the 190's, but if you think that bike had any resemblance to the bike you'd get from the dealer, than I got a bridge to sell you.). The R1 and 10R had barely any aftermarket parts, in fact the only modified R1 out there which Jason Dislavo ran was using R6 suspension parts rigged hours before that test as a last minute better than nothing. The 04's this year are going to be tough, handle awesome and be heavy competition. I think this year for superstock more than any year I was witness to is going to actually be almost all about rider skill than the riders bikes.
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posted January 03, 2004 06:23 AM
I'd agree with CD - it's gonna be a great year for Superstock! This also might shape up to be a great year for the Bostroms, Ben on the CBR in Superbike, and Eric on the 999 in Superbike. This is a dream for them, being able to compete directly against each other on the very best equipment.
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
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posted January 03, 2004 05:26 PM
I'd have to say that the Yamaha is a great bike. Always has been. But the GSXR just blew everyone out of the water the past couple years. If'n you wanted to racing with a 1000cc bike locally, your choices were a GSXR or losing. Now mind you, I said club-level racing. If woulda been fun to wheel out one of Rob Muzzy's ZX7Rs that Doug Chandler won a title on, and watch a good rider put the smackdown on all the local boys, but I don't have the 35 large for that particular exercise. So right out of the box, the GSXR has been *the* bike for the past couple years. Now, this year, it may well be the turd in the punchbowl to magazine journos, and maybe the underdog in AMA racing. But there will be plenty of club riders on well sorted GSXRs that will be more and happy to demonstrate to those new guys just how lacking they their skills are on that shiny new hon/yam/kaw. Conversely, the top local riders are going to go for any advantage they can get. My local hero, Mike Sullivan (AMA 74) (WMRRA / OMRRA) will be back on a R1 after winning last year on the GSXR1000 that he got from Don Blair (Zhooligan). So really, it's gonna be a great year, and I hope we see three different makes of bike on the podium at every race!
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
quote:frEEk...I know what you mean when you say Honda is the best...
Here is what I think each manufacturer has accomplished for production street bikes...
Honda - The best made bike overall, smooth, balanced, not as fast as others...
Kawasaki - The best street bike, comfortable, fast, made well, very few recalls...
Suzuki - Most adaptable for race use, fast, handles well, quirky and tempermental...
Yamaha - Best engineered, but doesnt seem finished...
anyone else care to give their .02 cents???
My .02 cents, forgive me it's really long.
First of all swift can't argue with really anything in your posts. I say this because really the GSXR1000 was god for the last 4 years on the track. They were very much ahead of their time in terms of power and performance and this is coming from a guy that isn't Suzuki's biggest fan. I will say one thing Suzuki did for all the other manufacturing fans like us, is simple. They lit the performance flame underneath the asses of all the other manufactures. Why? Well if you look at sales in liter bikes were the Yamaha R1 clearly dominated both Honda and Suzuki for years, every even up until 2002, even though Suzuki started winning championships 4 plus years ago, however the gain in sales yearly started to get smaller and smaller until this year where GSXR1000 finally took not only the liter bike crown, but the sales crown too. People didn't used to want performance race bikes or cutting edge a few years ago the same as they want it now. The big four know this and are working very hard to give us less street friendly bikes, and more track/race orientated bikes. I for one love it, because the track is my home away from home.
My response to crotch rocket is:
Honda - Built good quality street bikes. Especially with their F4 series which is a great learning bike, handles very well and isn't to shabby in the power for what it is. So I agree, they accomplished long lasting fun street bikes, but not much else until the last few years where the bumped up the game trying to go after Suzuki in terms of audience.
Kawasaki - Best street bikes? Well I am not sure now or if they ever had em, but the older ZX6Rs's are notorious for having bad engine problems, and horrible power delivery compared to it's competition 6R's and F4i's. However, last year marked the start of change in Kawasaki attitude when they released to very good 600's. Good for street? Well I used it on the street and had no problems. But it isn't the most comfortable street bike. If I wanted a better "Street" bike I could have gotten a 2003 F4, or an R6 which have a nice soft seat and smooth feeling. I chose the 636 because it wasn't the best street bike; it was in my opinion at the least one of the best track bikes. I think Kawasaki now makes good race bikes.
Suzuki - Well what can you say about the king? I think your statement for Yamaha fits more in with Suzuki. Suzuki's handle great on street and on track conditions. They feel comfortable. I went cross country on a friends 2002, 750 and that thing was so comfortable I never got cramped or anything. It was amazing. Took on the track and it handled smooth and was faster than snot falling from a brass door knob. Not to mention the bake seats are functional! Know I know the others work on the other bikes, but come on try riding someone on the back of a 636 and then on the back of a 750 and you notice a world of difference in comfort for both the rider and the passenger. Suzuki bikes are the best of both worlds, you want a race bike there will be no shortages of aftermarket parts for any size GSXR.
Yamaha - Well I believe Yamaha has always built amazing race bikes. But kept them in the racing world and out of the sale world, but that might have started to change in 2003. The Yamaha R6 which was basically discounted by most magazines as having nothing to offer the new 600's ended up winning almost all 600 racing circuits by not just a few points, by a country mile. AMA 600 super sport results reflect that the Yamaha R6 dominated time and time again in 2003. However the R1 looked the same as it has over the last few years less than competitive. Yamaha claims that they have been working on this new R1 for over 2 years; it would explain why they have left the current R1 relatively unchanged over the last few years. Why work on a bike that wont even be there in a few years? The new R1 has virtually no interchange parts with the other R1's. It isn't an upgrade, it's a new bike that only carries the originals name. Yamaha has made really good street bikes. In fact in some cases in my opinion the best "street" bikes, but that's all they were good for. This year will be different, and people wont be ready for how fast and awesome any of these new bikes are. These bikes have mutated from a cruise to my local liquor store to a lets see how fast we can take turn 9 at willow springs bike. I love every minute of it.
posted January 03, 2004 10:24 PM
This is going to be a great year for riders interested in 1000 cc sport bikes. The level of performance on any of the '04 1000 cc bikes is going to be so high that no one will be able to use them to their full all around potential on the street. So pick whatever fits you the best.
If you are a amatuer racer or track day rider, then you have other things to consider. For the club racer, the after market trick parts support for the Gixxer would be hard to ignore. Not to mention the knowledge base available. And Suzuki has done the best job of building a racer client base and supporting that group of riders. As for the other 3, I think the ZX10 has the most to offer for someone who would be willing to buck the Suzuki bandwagon. And I think it will be the best choice for a track days rider. Awesome forks, radial brakes with wave rotors, slipper clutch, Godzilla-like horsepower, the stiffest chassis in the class, fantastic rear shock, 600 class feel and handling and the hardest thing for an amatuer to buy, light weight.
As far as pro racing is concerned, I think the Honda will be the bike to beat in AMA Superbike and if Ten Kate (even though they are not factory supported, wink wink nudge nudge) gets all of the good stuff that the AMA team is getting, they will have a chance of spoiling the "Ducati Class" in WSB. In regards to the CBR1000RR, I heard some staggering news on another forum. It was reported that the forks on the Superbike Hondas are $125,000 hand built Showa forks with low, mid and high speed compression and rebound damping!!! The rear shocks were reported to be in a similar price range as well. Maybe someone on this forum can confirm or deny this. Suzuki is really going to have to step it up to compete against Honda in Superbike. In Superstock, I think Yamaha (factory team) and Suzuki (semi-factory support) will have a slight early season advantage since they have been racing 1000 cc fours for a several years. But I think by the end of the season, the ZX10 could be the bike to beat. We will see.
posted January 03, 2004 11:46 PM
Where the hell is the Yamaha? On the boat? Sitting in a warehouse in Irvine?Come-on Yamaha,RELEASE THEM!
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posted January 04, 2004 12:09 AM
i don't think i'd put much credence on the $125,000 figure. at the least it's probably a misleading figure, like it cost $125,000 to produce the initial pair forks, including all the r&d / setup. there's just NO way u can spend that much on forks otherwise. or someone at honda owns stock in showa and are jsut spreadin the wealth
posted January 04, 2004 09:02 AM
I can't confirm the 125K either but Honda did have a rear shock on thier 600CBR that was valued at 50K. And there are unconfirmed reports that the CBR600 that won Daytona had special parts also, remember their were no bikes in showrooms to measure against and with my own 2 beedy little eyes saw the AMA officials wave the bike through tech without checking it over.
And the bike never again made the podium the entire year, just one of those thigns that makes you say hmmmmmmmm!
Winning Daytona is EVERYTHING to a manufacturer!
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posted January 01, 2004 06:51 AM
Edited By: 
So right out of the box, the GSXR has been *the* bike for the past couple years. Now, this year, it may well be the turd in the punchbowl to magazine journos, and maybe the underdog in AMA racing. But there will be plenty of club riders on well sorted GSXRs that will be more and happy to demonstrate to those new guys just how lacking they their skills are on that shiny new hon/yam/kaw. Conversely, the top local riders are going to go for any advantage they can get. My local hero, Mike Sullivan (AMA 74) (WMRRA / OMRRA) will be back on a R1 after winning last year on the GSXR1000 that he got from Don Blair (Zhooligan). So really, it's gonna be a great year, and I hope we see three different makes of bike on the podium at every race!
posted January 03, 2004 06:15 PM
