swft
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posted December 12, 2003 06:34 AM
Formula one racing as compared to stock vehicle racing is like comparing the moon shot to a bottle rocket. 
  
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rubber pants
Zone Head
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posted December 12, 2003 08:17 AM
Still very boring to me!
Sure the machines are interesting but the racing part is boring. No one or any machine should dominate..................there is something wrong there. I think my mom could win races on Rossi's Honda or Schumakers Ferrari.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
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posted December 12, 2003 09:53 AM
then why is it rossi is the only one of the group riding the 211v to consistantly win?
what that boy does is just plain brutal to the bike, it is truly leagues above any of the other riders
just a thought....
  
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necro
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My Grandma Is A Virgin
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posted December 12, 2003 10:08 AM
F1 (& similar classed) is a good way to develop and test new technologies. The bad side is that "regular" people can't compete.
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rubber pants
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posted December 12, 2003 10:19 AM
Because its all about who has the deepest pckets!
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swft
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posted December 12, 2003 12:16 PM
Deep, deep pockets...
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
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posted December 12, 2003 11:10 PM
Running Daytona on a motorcyle is flat out insane. It's the only place tire changes and gas stops are part of the race plan. Riding in that banking is like nothing else and the rest is high speed danger. That being said I still would hate to see racing stop there and I seriously doubt if it would. It's an amazing place just to be in and and the equipment should be able to be built to take on the task.
The sad part is that we use the best riders on the best bikes to "test" the tires. Sometimes the only way to make sure this stuff works is taking it over the limit. They've been throwing those bikes to the limits ever since they ran them on the beach and will probably be running there for a long time to come. If there was a way to put a test dummy on the bikes I'm sure they would, but that's not going to happen.
My personal tire experience at Dayona (track school, not racing) is a street Pilot Sport on my 2000 ZX-12 was good for 2 - 30 minute full out sessions. (you do 4 a day) I had the rear go down 5 minutes before the end of the second session while I was going into the East banking. Nothing exciting happened, it felt funny so I went into pit lane. When I made the left to go behind the wall I thought the back end of the bike was going to wobble off. I'm very glad I didn't shoot past and try turn 1 with it like that. Now when I ride I make Sherman look like a rocket so that tells you that that track is hard on tires, especially when they are bolted on a 180+ HP bike and spun up to 190 over and over.
I'm amazed the tires last at all with the pros. I expect to see Matt run the 200, but if he doesn't want to he can always go to Razzle's the night before. 
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zeta xray
Expert Class
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posted December 13, 2003 08:33 AM
DaveInDaytona, I can take my R1 to TWS and run a entire 2 day weekend track day (at least 6 - 20 minute sessions per day) on one rear DOT race tire. I am not fast, so I am sure that helps. But guys that are faster, get similar results. A few years ago, when teams first started to use sophisticated data gathering, they found that the front tire was showing something like 15 to 20 mph less speed than the rear tire at the same time on the bank at Daytona. Wheel spin???? That probably happens at all of the tracks, but at Daytona, it is sustained, not for just a second or so. I think DIS is just a tire killer and the track layout sucks. The track runs most of the entire oval, how exciting is that? My opinion is: redsign the road race layout or kick it off the AMA schedule.
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k bryant
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posted December 13, 2003 06:34 PM
 Edited By: k bryant on 13 Dec 2003 18:35
Dangerous or not, Daytona is one track we all look forward to running. You work all winter preparing for it. I loved it when I was racing and I love it now as a sponser. So much history. So much of an event (much more than just the speedway.
We complained back in the 70's & 80's, just like they are now. When we raced 1000cc Superbikes & TZ750's, we had tire problems. The speeds were very big back then, especially before we had to run restrictors on the TZ's. The solution back then for the tire guys were to make them rock hard & we just dealt with limited traction for the race. Now, in the more modern era, they want them as soft as possible to only last between gas stops.
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zeta xray
Expert Class
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posted December 13, 2003 09:05 PM
Right now, Daytona is the opening act for every new season, worldwide. I look forward to Daytona also, to see all of the new bikes actually race for the first time and see who is going fast and who needs to do more work. But I could look forward to those same things if the first race was at any track. Last year, Mladin cruised around in the 200 to finish 6th, if memeory serves me right. The race became a battle between 3 RC51's which seem to punish tires less than the 4 cyl bikes. Sorta reminded me of some of the NASCAR fuel economy races. Honda couldn't duplicate that dominating performance the rest of the season. Mladin wound up dominating the championship. I don't see that Daytona is representitive of the series.
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k bryant
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posted December 13, 2003 10:57 PM
IYour point is taken, but you're speaking from an enthusist point of view; not a racers. Winning the Daytona 200 is the most prestigious thing a racer can do, outside of winning the championship.
Nascar guy will say the same thing. The other car guys will say the same about their special meaning tracks. Indy car guy will say Indy. F1 guy will say Monaco.
Daytona is very much representitive of the series, from a racers point of view. From a spectator's viewpoint though, there's definetly better, more exciting "viewable" tracks. Road America, Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta, Barber, just to name a few.
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swft
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posted December 14, 2003 10:22 AM
Matt's gonna do what he thinks is best for him. And I can certainly understand that. It'd be safer to route the bikes through the tunnel, let them do a serpentine through the parking lot, and then back onto the track than it is to run the banking at those speeds. Daytona is a great place, but they need to step it up. Indianapolis it ain't.
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BLEED GREEN
Parking Attendant
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posted December 14, 2003 01:30 PM
OK, Why such a worry about Dunlop, I've never had good luck with them on my bikes! With the only Exception being the 208 that was on the ZX12R. I know Michelin/Bridgestone would have to have a SUPER Tire to work with. Abandon Dunlop till they get it right!
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zeta xray
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posted December 14, 2003 04:54 PM
I know that Dunlops point of view is: If 95% of the field were on Michelins, you would see a similar failure rate of Michelin tires. I am not a Dunlop fan but I would have to say that the D207RR (no not D207ZR) tires that were a riding partners Ducati were excellent. Much better than the Pilot Sprots that he replaced them with. But I am a big fan of Pirelli Dragon SuperCorsas and Diablo Corsas.
KB, as far as the "racers" vs. the "enthusiasts" point of view re the 200 at Daytona. We all know Mladin's point of view. Eric Bostrom doesn't like it either and there are probably many more who do not come out and express their opinion for various reasons. Since Honda obviously thinks that Daytona is the ONLY race in the US, I don't think any of their riders will voice a negative opinion towards the 200.
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k bryant
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posted December 14, 2003 06:23 PM
I'm not speaking for Honda. And it's unlikely they or any others view Daytona as the "ONLY race in the US."
If a racer feels the risks outweigh the rewards (finanicially or emotionally), then they simply need to not show up at the starting line. Motorcycle mfgs., Tire guys, and all the others from mechanics to sponsers, don't want racers to get hurt. They are literally "family". Lets hope everyone has a safe & exciting race in March.
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zeta xray
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posted December 14, 2003 06:49 PM
quote:
Lets hope everyone has a safe & exciting race in March.
Amen, to that..........
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted December 15, 2003 05:46 AM
have to say that I love to see the crashes, but I really dont like to see people get hurt....you know the guys are pushing them selves on that track, watch the tires just before they change them....sliding all over, man its great, see alot of crashes around that time too, and towords the end of the race........i love to watch the race at DIS, but I do it from the house, its better viewing form my couch.......
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