TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 03:42 PM
But most of the people who buy one don't go to that extreme. Maybe 5% the rest look at the numbers and go from there. And even then the baseline to the other 95% is what it has off the showroom floor. Most don't drag race. Anyway the less you have to do to a bike to make it run well, the better.
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 03:45 PM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 25 Oct 2010 23:48
Like I said, I don't want a bike engineered for the Starbucks crowd....I want a bike with solid hardware. I could care less if it costs an extra $1000 to derestrict it and stomp the shit out of everything. In fact, you will probably be more likely to get a deal on one of these than a BMW....making all the whining about money even more pointless.
And, from what I see on these bikes...not many leave the stock exhaust on anyway. So then you are just looking at the unknown cost to extend the revs and map the fuel. On most Kaws this can be done with dynojet products for $500 or less.
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 03:48 PM
Who is speculating now? The tangible fact it what the published figures say and they aren't pretty.
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 03:51 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 25 Oct 2010 23:52
quote:
Who is speculating now? The tangible fact it what the published figures say and they aren't pretty.
I am speculating based on historical facts with almost all of the sport bikes currently on the market (ever hear of Dynojet Rev-Extend?). I am not dreaming of, and throwing out inflated costs that have no basis.
The published figures on the hardware of this machine are fantastic. But maybe you would rather have 44mm TB's, 26.5mm buckets, and a .360 lift cam (like the 14)? Or maybe you don't know the difference.
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 03:53 PM
No just dreaming and throwing out under inflated costs that have no basis. Since when has a pipe and a PC cost $500?
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 03:54 PM
quote:
No just dreaming and throwing out under inflated costs that have no basis. Since when has a pipe and a PC cost $500?
I said that most people install a pipe anyway.
The cost of a power commander and ignition module (with rev extend) are about $500 combined.
Ted, honestly, this area is not your expertise.
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 03:58 PM
Actually it is. Much, much more than you realize.
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Ted
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 04:05 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Oct 2010 00:06
quote:
Actually it is. Much, much more than you realize.
And apparently much more so than you are expressing. Because, if it is your area of expertise, then you realize that an electronic restriction is much more favorable than a hardware-related one.
But, please elaborate on what you know about fuel control, ignition, rpm control, ecu flashing,etc. Because as best as I can tell, you don't know a lot as related to modern sport bikes...but you are probably just holding back.
Obviously you know that many modern ecu's can be reflashed for well under $500, to remove speed limiters and raise rpm. Obviously you know that a typical dyno jet ignition module is about $250 and can raise the rev limit.
Obviously you know that to enlarge the buckets on a cylinder head can be near $1000, and that you can't run the big cams without doing so. Obviously you know that boring out throttle bodies is hundreds (my 14 set cost me $500+ shipping).
I know that you must know this stuff...I am just posting it for the guys who don't.
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 04:24 PM
Edited By: TedG on 26 Oct 2010 00:27
Well for starters, I was a factory trained Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, KTM, Triumph, BSA, Can-am, Husky, mechanic to mention a few. But that was a while ago. As for modern electronics I was the chief R+D engineer for a very large electronic based company that specialized in embedded systems. There are people here on this board that can attest to that. Today I am the director of embedded systems that is the cutting edge of technology for flash based recording of motion picture media. I write code that can take write up to 60 frames per second at 10mb a frame to flash memory.
That doesn't even begin to describe it. I have built from scratch, electronic fuel injection systems using microchip's processors.
And even today YOU have used some of my electronic inventions, and mfgs of products you have used, use my code to develop their products.
Is that enough???
Some ECUs can be reflashed, some can't. Actually Harley has one of the best systems out there.
This conversation is not about the details of making a bike run better, we all know that it can be done, it is about public perception and what they will buy.
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Ted
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 04:29 PM
quote:
Well for starters, I was a factory trained Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, KTM, Triumph, BSA, Can-am, Husky, mechanic to mention a few. But that was a while ago. As for modern electronics I was the chief R+D engineer for a very large electronic based company that specialized in embedded systems. There are people here on this board that can attest to that. Today I am the director of embedded systems that is the cutting edge of technology for flash based recording of motion picture media. I write code that can take write up to 60 frames per second at 10mb a frame to flash memory.
That doesn't even begin to describe it. I have built from scratch, electronic fuel injection systems using microchip's processors.
And even today YOU have used some of my electronic inventions, and mfgs of products you have used, use my code to develop their products.
Is that enough???
Some ECU can be reflashed, some can't. Actually Harley has one of the best systems out there.
This conversation is not about the details of making a bike run better, we all know that it can be done, it is about public perception and what they will buy.
Blah. The new 10R has great performance hardware. And whiners are crying about an electronic restriction...not the great hardware.
To these people, the glass is 3/4 empty. Sad.
If you know so much, then why are you whining? You know this electronic restriction is nothing compared to the fantastic hardware improvements in the engine. Or maybe you don't know engine hardware like you apparently know electronics???
So, again, why are you whining?
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worm~hole
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posted October 25, 2010 04:30 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 26 Oct 2010 00:31
...yea Harley  ....uncle Ted knows LOTS 
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1badzx12r
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posted October 25, 2010 04:31 PM
quote:
it is about public perception and what they will buy.
And as a Friend of mine put it .. If Aliens came to Earth tomorrow and was giving free butt probes .. peoples would line up
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 04:34 PM
Edited By: TedG on 26 Oct 2010 01:06
As for engine hardware, for every engine you have made go fast, I have done 50. This thread is not about that.
I am whining about the fact that they are building a sales flop. The point to the whole thing is when they do that it hurts us all because no one want's to make aftermarket stuff that doesn't have a broad base. They did the same shit with the 12r and they were not off the mark, it made more power then the busa, out handled it, yada, yada. And just because Suzuki sent some magazine a ringer that they unofficially clocked at 195 it fucking killed the 12.
We don't know if it 10 has great hardware yet.
Remember I am a Kawasaki lover, before you ever even dreamed of a motorcycle I was getting tickets for doing wheelies on Kawasakis.
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1badzx12r
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posted October 25, 2010 04:36 PM
Blah. The new 10R has great performance hardware. And whiners are crying about an electronic restriction...not the great hardware.
To these people, the glass is 3/4 empty. Sad.
Obviously you know most liters don't have enough cylinder wall clearance to bore much .. to match all them big valves and TB'S.. and 2nd most liter bottom ends won't hold much more HP .. AND 3RD we can go to the WERA site and buy a true 200hp built motor for next to nothing
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 04:43 PM
quote:
...yea Harley ....uncle Ted knows LOTS
Thanks.
Sick isn't it? But it is true, they ECU on the Harley can be dialed in and reflashed like you can't believe. What a waste.
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 04:44 PM
Yes, the bore spacing can be narrow. But we are talking about very high rpm, which can take advantage of the cams and TB's. The valves are not exactly huge.
With the high rpm ceiling, air velocity should remain good since the intake stroke is relatively fast at 14k rpm, unrestricted, as you know..
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 04:45 PM
I think it is pretty common knowledge that the HD ecu's are the best for tuning. Well, common knowledge for those without blinders on.
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 04:47 PM
Ah yes, but all is for naught if those valves float.
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Ted
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1badzx12r
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posted October 25, 2010 04:47 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 26 Oct 2010 00:49
http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=270012&highlight=motor
08 Superbike motor:
Complete assembled correctly By JORDAN MOTORSPORTS AMA team. C&C ported head by Crescent SBK Suzuki team, and R-type cams, Pingle two ring forged sbk pistons, TITANIUM rods (4k just for the rods!) this is the real deal 207hp+
asking $3900
being i'm a dumbass i'd buy this and sell my stock motor on ebay
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 04:49 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Oct 2010 00:50
quote:
Ah yes, but all is for naught if those valves float.
Uhh..since the valvetrain on this bike is designed for 14k rpm, I doubt that float will be an issue.
This thing looks great. I can't wait to see one with big cams, stiff springs, spinning to 15k rpm...WOW!
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 04:55 PM
quote:
quote:
Ah yes, but all is for naught if those valves float.
Uhh..since the valvetrain on this bike is designed for 14k rpm, I doubt that float will be an issue.
This thing looks great. I can't wait to see one with big cams, stiff springs, spinning to 15k rpm...WOW!
One would think..... I love a high RPM bike, I learned how to ride on 2 strokes and love that kind of power band, torque is for pussys.
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Ted
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1badzx12r
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posted October 25, 2010 04:59 PM
quote:
quote:
.
Uhh..since the valvetrain on this bike is designed for 14k rpm, I doubt that float will be an issue.
This thing looks great. I can't wait to see one with big cams, stiff springs, spinning to 15k rpm...WOW!
YOU HAVE
sounds like the BMW to me .
ZX10 is de-nuted
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TedG
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posted October 25, 2010 05:03 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
.
Uhh..since the valvetrain on this bike is designed for 14k rpm, I doubt that float will be an issue.
This thing looks great. I can't wait to see one with big cams, stiff springs, spinning to 15k rpm...WOW!
YOU HAVE
sounds like the BMW to me .
ZX10 is de-nuted
I think you mean de-nutted. Or more appropriately...neutered.
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Ted
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Shane661
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posted October 25, 2010 05:04 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Oct 2010 01:07
What a pathetic group of haters in this thread (but, ironically, not a single BMW S1000 owner)! See ya!
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SteveWFL
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posted October 25, 2010 06:39 PM
mother kawi seems to hate the truth too.
wonder what they'll think of their north american sales numbers.
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'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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