dougmeyer

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posted October 07, 2010 08:06 AM
Where is it written that a manufacturer has a responsibility to provide a vehicle with the maximum amount of power it is able to produce?
What a ridiculous premise. This is clearly not the same as offering one thing and providing another. As long as they advertising is correct, you don't like the package? Don't buy one. Or... buy one and bring it to the standard you want.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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Shane661

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posted October 07, 2010 08:29 AM
quote: Where is it written that a manufacturer has a responsibility to provide a vehicle with the maximum amount of power it is able to produce?
What a ridiculous premise. This is clearly not the same as offering one thing and providing another. As long as they advertising is correct, you don't like the package? Don't buy one. Or... buy one and bring it to the standard you want.
I don't see the power issue as a big deal, personally. People will find a workaround for that.
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Ricksgsxr

Zone Head
Posts: 511
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posted October 07, 2010 09:08 AM
quote: I've been thinking about the "restriction" issue a bit. There are no regulations capping power or speed potential in the US. I can only think of two federal (EPA) regs that might come into play here, emissions and noise. Further I'm familiar with the testing necessary to comply with these regs from when I worked on the Muzzy Raptor project and various exhaust noise issues. I had to study all the applicable federal regs pretty carefully to sell those 50 Raptors legally. I doubt it's an emissions issue. Most of those criteria are based on and addressed with the evaporative control systems. The exhaust emissions are pretty easily complied with and the test cycles do not focus on the high output areas, but mostly on the "normal driving" cycles. I'd be very surprised if this wasn't a noise issue, and it's not likely entirely an exhaust noise issue. Noise signatures are based on "total noise". This is exhaust, intake, and mechanical noise and believe it or not, the intake noise is very significant. Four valve engines with short inlet ports, velocity stacks and big ram air intakes make A LOT of noise at high RPM and high power outputs. Even the injectors firing make quite a noise. There is gear whine, chain noise, all sorts of noise coming off that thing. And then of course, there is the exhaust, which with a single muffler that can support 200 hp from 1 liter, has to be pretty free flowing (and, noisy).
If this is true, it doesn’t bother me much, especially if the “fix” is easily identified and available. I think the power available with the bike as shipped in the US is probably enough for 50% of the riders 50% of the time they’re riding. You may not be one of those for a variety of reasons, ranging from using the bike for actual racing, or like me, to just wanting the fastest thing you can get your hands on for no reason other than you want it.
So, buy the fix. Get the ECU and a pipe or whatever is takes. Make no mistake, I do HATE the idea of regulation, but I really don’t mind the idea of having more power available at my option if I choose it.
I wonder if BMW 's work around for noise is the intial 600 mile rpm restriction? I could be mistaken but thought i read the S1000r was rpm limited for the first 600 miles> Thsi would be a clever work aroundd if true.
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted October 07, 2010 09:30 AM
quote:
quote: Where is it written that a manufacturer has a responsibility to provide a vehicle with the maximum amount of power it is able to produce?
What a ridiculous premise. This is clearly not the same as offering one thing and providing another. As long as they advertising is correct, you don't like the package? Don't buy one. Or... buy one and bring it to the standard you want.
I don't see the power issue as a big deal, personally. People will find a workaround for that.
And it will cost you more money with aftermarket companies to get that work around. Maybe that is the whole point?
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Shane661

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posted October 07, 2010 09:36 AM
We just don't know what the costs will be. We don't know exactly how they limited the power yet. As I was saying elsehere, I'm sure Brock and others will figure it out (perhaps with some help from Kawasaki).
The mechanical hardware looks great though, so that is promising.
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fish_antlers

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posted October 07, 2010 11:09 AM
quote:
I wonder if BMW 's work around for noise is the intial 600 mile rpm restriction? I could be mistaken but thought i read the S1000r was rpm limited for the first 600 miles> Thsi would be a clever work aroundd if true.
correct - it is my understanding that the BMW ships with a 9K rev limit which the dealer flashes to maximum at it's first service. I believe this is now under govt scrutiny.
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WARBIRD

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posted October 07, 2010 11:17 AM
Quote:
I wonder if BMW 's work around for noise is the intial 600 mile rpm restriction? I could be mistaken but thought i read the S1000r was rpm limited for the first 600 miles> Thsi would be a clever work aroundd if true.
+1
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WARBIRD

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posted October 07, 2010 11:29 AM
If the bike has 197 hp @ 13000 rpm, and the revlimiter cuts in @11000 rpm or so for the US models....maybe that 176 hp is what the bike is making @ the US limiter. Maybe that is how they clipped it's wings.....just an early rev limiter. Less noise @ 11000 than 13000 like Doug was saying..........
And maybe that was how BMW got past an EPA noise limit. ( If that is even the reason......but Doug's post sure makes good sense to me..........
176 @ 11000 rpm
197 @ 13000 rpm
500 to 750 rpm of overrev would get you right at what the picture of the tach shows.....redline @ about 13750 rpm..........
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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WARBIRD

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posted October 07, 2010 11:33 AM
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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1badzx12r
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posted October 07, 2010 11:59 AM
fukk a zx10 . i've got a turbo zx14
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Shane661

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posted October 07, 2010 12:38 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Oct 2010 20:41
quote: If the bike has 197 hp @ 13000 rpm, and the revlimiter cuts in @11000 rpm or so for the US models....maybe that 176 hp is what the bike is making @ the US limiter. Maybe that is how they clipped it's wings.....just an early rev limiter. Less noise @ 11000 than 13000 like Doug was saying..........
And maybe that was how BMW got past an EPA noise limit. ( If that is even the reason......but Doug's post sure makes good sense to me..........
176 @ 11000 rpm
197 @ 13000 rpm
500 to 750 rpm of overrev would get you right at what the picture of the tach shows.....redline @ about 13750 rpm..........
The only problem is that nowhere does it say that the bike redlines at 11000 or 13000....that is where they are listed by kawasaki to make peak power.
I repeat, that is where they make peak power according to Kawasaki. It does not say that is the redline. Fish was given documents with a typo in them, he has stated.
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WARBIRD

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posted October 07, 2010 02:32 PM
Shane.........I didn't mention the word "redline" anywhere but the end of the last sentence. I said the picture of the tach shows redline to be about 13750..........
Easy big fella!...... Those numbers are for peak power...........I understand........
So if you take the "same spec engine" as the Euro's and "turn it off" at 11000 rpm you get 176 hp. That is how I see it........ Let it rev to 13000 you get 197........ It says nowhere what the redline is, but looking at the picture it "appears" to be around 14000 or so. They would have to change a LOT of things ( gearing etc....) like you said to have the (USACAN) bike peak at 11000 and redline anywhere near that. It would be a different engine. Too expensive. I repeat, I think they clipped it's wings simply by limiting the rpm ceiling electronically. And I don't know what the redline is.
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pazx14rider

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Posts: 953
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posted October 07, 2010 03:19 PM
My dealer said the kawi rep in vegas stated all the majority of power reduction on the us bikes is in the exhaust system. how much the ecu and rev limiter are reducing hp? guess someone will have to put a full exhaust on it to find out
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MJ

Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted October 07, 2010 07:26 PM
According to the info from kawi on Bikelands homepage about the new 10, you need a race ecu and full exhaust to get all the power back. That should be a real cheap and easy fix NOT!!!!
This is one of the most fukked up things I've heard of in years
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fish_antlers

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posted October 07, 2010 07:30 PM
we have a lot of talented members here - I'm sure someone will come up with a reasonable solution!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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dougmeyer

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posted October 07, 2010 08:01 PM
What's fukked up about that? Seems perfectly rational to me.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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1adam12
Expert Class
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posted October 07, 2010 08:45 PM
Please kawasaki don't fuck this up!!!!!
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1adam12
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posted October 07, 2010 08:47 PM
No really please kawasaki don't FUCK this up!!!!!!!!
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MJ

Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted October 07, 2010 09:21 PM
Too late....
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CraigChrist
Pro
BAWLS
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posted October 07, 2010 11:57 PM
As high up on the bike as the clutch is it won't suit my purpose anyway...
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60ft-------1.42
1/8th------5.97
mph-------119
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ThunderCK

Junior Member
Posts: 201
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posted October 08, 2010 09:35 AM
This is not Kawi's fault. It is quite obvious GWB is. Along with many other things including 1Bad's obesity and slight retardation. Lets keep this on track fellas.
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Y2KZX12R

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posted October 08, 2010 10:08 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 8 Oct 2010 18:10
The government knows whats best for you.
They need to take care of you because you cant make rational purchasing decisions on your own. If they made a bike that weighed 30 pounds less and made 30 hp more you might make the decision to buy it, and that would put money in the corporations pocket , and that's called profits. We cant have companies making profits at the expense of the working people. They might higher more people then and make even more profits and then make more irresponsible products that you might want to buy.
LOL just kidding.... Don't worry, I'm sure it wont take long to get the lost hp back.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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CrotchRocket

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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted October 08, 2010 10:18 AM
quote: Here's the skinny..................the US bikes will be neutered to 188hp, for EMISSIONS purposes only, to meet the new laws. Kawasaki can't put the kit ECU's on the bike because their hands are tied, but there will be a way for you and I to get our hands on a kit ECU which only takes lifting the tank to replace(5 minutes) and .......BAM, you've just unleashed the beast!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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CrotchRocket

Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted October 08, 2010 10:21 AM
quote: Reports are..........with a kit ECU and a slip on pipe, this bad boy made.............................207hp with ram air to the crank!!!!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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fish_antlers

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posted October 08, 2010 11:06 AM
Actually word has it that it will make MORE than the euro bike when u install the race ecu
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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