fish_antlers

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posted April 28, 2009 10:45 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 28 Apr 2009 20:33
2010 zx10r
internet rumor...
http://www.motostar.co.za/Home/News/2010KawasakiZX10R/tabid/335/Default.aspx
quote: 2010 Kawasaki ZX-10R
Kawasaki recently filed patents for an in line four cylinder motorcycle engine with an uneven firing order. While similar to the design from Yamaha in the latest R1, the Kawasaki engine design steps things up a bit by adding some electronics to aid the uneven firing order.
The Kawasaki design would traditionally have had problems, in that the radical nature of the firing order would have made the engine incapable of running at low RPM, due to a lack of momentum in the crank on the long 540° revolution. The second problem would have been the requirement for a very heavy and almost impractical crankshaft, which would have made the engine slow to rev, and would have limited high end RPM.
Kawasaki have solved these problems by using clever electronics. An electric motor operates only on every second revolution, during the compression stroke, and only on cylinders one and four. This tiny electric motor operates only long enough for the motor to gain momentum, and then switches off again. Engine sensors are used to monitor crank angle, degree of throttle opening, vehicle speed and gear position. The new electric motor will also be used as a generator to charge the battery when it's not boosting the crank, and that means it can do the job of the traditional alternator too.
What does this all mean? Well to you and me, probably nothing other than a bike that sounds like the Yamaha M1, but if you are a really good rider, you will now be getting more traction and therefore better feedback from the rear tyre under acceleration, meaning faster corner exits, and ultimately better drive out of corners which means better speed down straits and hopefully an advantage for the green team (and don't they need one right now?)
The radical 540° gap in the firing order is double the gap that the new R1 uses, and means that the ZX-10R motor turns a full one and a half revolutions without any cylinders firing. The gap in the R1 firing order is only 270° which in itself was considered rather long.
However the most significant benefits from the Kawasaki design are that the crankshaft retains the natural balance as found in a traditional (screamer) in line four. This in effect reduces production costs, improves reliability, and also enables the normal high rev limit found in screamer engines, which means that the peak power output will not be adversely affected.
It seems like next year the major brands will all be making V4's or 'Big Bangs' if they want to stay competitive. Aprilia have already gone the V4 route, so we still need to find out what Suzuki & Honda have planned. Honda could easily build a V4, and Suzuki have the GSVR in MOTOGP which is a V4, so they know how to do it too. It looks like 2010 is going to be another one of those years with amazing technology coming to the consumers because of racing...
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zxbob

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posted April 28, 2009 10:49 AM
Where's the pics ..... ?
Bob
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ZX11D

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posted April 28, 2009 11:13 AM
quote: This tiny electric motor operates only long enough for the motor to gain momentum, and then switches off again. Engine sensors are used to monitor crank angle, degree of throttle opening, vehicle speed and gear position. The new electric motor will also be used as a generator to charge the battery when it's not boosting the crank, and that means it can do the job of the traditional alternator too.
Interesting, very interesting, however, I have serious doubt about this paragraph.
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dubious

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posted April 28, 2009 11:30 AM
I have seen it many times in the industry, and it is proven that when an electric motor is driven by fluid, it become a generator...
Seems really complicated and convoluted in theory, and sound heavy...
I will stick to a traditional reliable internal combustion engine...thanks...
Show me pneumatic valves, allowing truly variable valve timing , reduced valve closing parasistc losses, and you will have my attention though...proven formula 1 technology that would give ultimate of all RPM characteristics and could be used to control power / traction as well.
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ZX11D

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posted April 28, 2009 11:50 AM
quote: I have seen it many times in the industry, and it is proven that when an electric motor is driven by fluid, it become a generator...
I do not question the capability of an electric motor to become generator. What I doubt is the fact that it would have to be switching duty between generator and drive back and forth in milliseconds, so in a 4-stroke engine, once every second revolution (1-st & 4-th cylinders, which compression stroke timing must be spaced close together to do this ) at 13,000 RPM, unless it would work only in low RPM's when it would be needed the most. Still, hard to believe.
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'07 ZX-14
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Shane661

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posted April 28, 2009 11:55 AM
I'm still waiting to see what the 08-09 can really do...great deals out there for a lot of motorcycle...
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SteveWFL

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posted April 28, 2009 01:44 PM
The Aprilia is on top for '09.
Stay tuned, Honda will be rolling out a V4 along with Aprilia while everyone else is still jacking around with inline 4's
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pazx14rider

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posted April 28, 2009 02:19 PM
Sounds good till one of thier"tiny" motors takes a crap!!
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fish_antlers

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posted April 28, 2009 03:14 PM
honda's been rolling out that v4 for about 5 years now
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ZX11D

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posted April 28, 2009 03:44 PM
I also believe V4 is the way to go.
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'07 ZX-14
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dubious

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posted April 28, 2009 03:56 PM
If the electric motor is spinning fast enough it can produce torque, then generate electricity in milliseconds...
If it is turning it can generate elcetricity as soon as it is no longer consuming it..
I still think its cheesy though....
They could develop better idea's with a little bit more expense, but still produce it for much less money than the Ducati's tractability costs, with more reliable means, that also allows screaming top end HP.
I agree a V4 with pneumatic valve actuation..
Pneumatic valve actuation weighs less, produces less parasitic loss, better valve control, higher rpm valvetrain control, and through digital pneumatic control allows optimum valve duration and lift for any given RPM, as well as the ability to detune the motor as soon as the predetermined acceleration curve is overcome, much as they do with ignition timing right now. Traction control, maximum HP, maximum torque, extended power and torque curves, etc etc ...
They have the ability to produce it, at a reasonable expense, but as with the Busa 14- Busa advances, baby steps are made so that we feel a need to buy a new bike every second year to keep up...
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Lucky14

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posted April 28, 2009 04:10 PM
I hope this is someone's idea of a joke!
Even if it's real, it's still a joke.
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TedG
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posted April 28, 2009 04:59 PM
V4s and all the other suggestions miss the point. The power pulses are what they are trying to achieve. Kinda like ABS in reverse. The electric motor is only for idling anyway, once it gets going it will be a full time generator.
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drewzx-14

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Andrew
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posted April 28, 2009 07:18 PM
WOW! this should be interesting....i cant wait to see next years shootout. New technology to the public is awesome. These bikes are getting better every year. I am happy with my R1, still havent seen all the benefits of the technology. Im waiting for warm weather.
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salsa1
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posted April 29, 2009 06:18 AM
Give me a "Rotary powered Wankel" ZX-10R.. Only then would I consider parting with my 04 ZX-10R..
Yea I know....but it could work....
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zx-twitch

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posted April 29, 2009 07:11 AM
wouldn't be the first rotary powered bike. norton made a race bike with a rotary motor.
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salsa1
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posted April 29, 2009 07:41 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 29 Apr 2009 17:51
quote: wouldn't be the first rotary powered bike. norton made a race bike with a rotary motor.
Yes I remember; usually there is conflict on what size engine the rotary is considered due to it's mechanical advantage and ability to produce more hp with same displacment as reciprocating engine...not to mention reliability on high performance applications....not sure what happened to the Norton specimen....evidentley it did not succed...but those in the know understand the power is there.....maybe one day we will see it come our way in a production sports bike....
the 2010 ZX-10R is so over kill for street riding....( talking handling needs & ability) ....but power wise should be just fine....it is a track bike afterall and a good one that Kawasaki perfects for that purpose....nothing new right... my 2 cents...
I like the Idea of a rotary though.....
I enjoy power over handling .... for all practical purposes handling is already there in bikes as is.....just more overkill now....
Have fun!!
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MJ

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posted April 29, 2009 07:59 AM
quote: internet rumor...
http://www.motostar.co.za/Home/News/2010KawasakiZX10R/tabid/335/Default.aspx
quote: 2010 Kawasaki ZX-10R
Kawasaki recently filed patents for an in line four cylinder motorcycle engine with an uneven firing order. While similar to the design from Yamaha in the latest R1, the Kawasaki engine design steps things up a bit by adding some electronics to aid the uneven firing order.
The Kawasaki design would traditionally have had problems, in that the radical nature of the firing order would have made the engine incapable of running at low RPM, due to a lack of momentum in the crank on the long 540° revolution. The second problem would have been the requirement for a very heavy and almost impractical crankshaft, which would have made the engine slow to rev, and would have limited high end RPM.
Kawasaki have solved these problems by using clever electronics. An electric motor operates only on every second revolution, during the compression stroke, and only on cylinders one and four. This tiny electric motor operates only long enough for the motor to gain momentum, and then switches off again. Engine sensors are used to monitor crank angle, degree of throttle opening, vehicle speed and gear position. The new electric motor will also be used as a generator to charge the battery when it's not boosting the crank, and that means it can do the job of the traditional alternator too.
What does this all mean? Well to you and me, probably nothing other than a bike that sounds like the Yamaha M1, but if you are a really good rider, you will now be getting more traction and therefore better feedback from the rear tyre under acceleration, meaning faster corner exits, and ultimately better drive out of corners which means better speed down straits and hopefully an advantage for the green team (and don't they need one right now?)
The radical 540° gap in the firing order is double the gap that the new R1 uses, and means that the ZX-10R motor turns a full one and a half revolutions without any cylinders firing. The gap in the R1 firing order is only 270° which in itself was considered rather long.
However the most significant benefits from the Kawasaki design are that the crankshaft retains the natural balance as found in a traditional (screamer) in line four. This in effect reduces production costs, improves reliability, and also enables the normal high rev limit found in screamer engines, which means that the peak power output will not be adversely affected.
It seems like next year the major brands will all be making V4's or 'Big Bangs' if they want to stay competitive. Aprilia have already gone the V4 route, so we still need to find out what Suzuki & Honda have planned. Honda could easily build a V4, and Suzuki have the GSVR in MOTOGP which is a V4, so they know how to do it too. It looks like 2010 is going to be another one of those years with amazing technology coming to the consumers because of racing...
Wow......that sounds like a sensor/electronic loaded overcomplicated nightmare. I can imagine the bugs the first year owners will be going through if that thing comes out. And probably going to cost a fortune as well. I think these bikes are becoming way too complicated and prone to expensive, hard to diagnose failures for street bikes. Personally I want something fun, very reliable and simple as a brick for my street use
They can keep the rolling million-and-one-things-to-fail robo-bikes for the techno-freaks
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zxhoya

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posted April 29, 2009 01:26 PM
Consider me a techno-freak! I love new technology, "don't be scared".
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kawasakijockey

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posted April 29, 2009 01:36 PM
Dammit Hoya! Your avatar totally f@cks up my concentration..
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drewzx-14

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posted April 29, 2009 02:46 PM
quote: Dammit Hoya! Your avatar totally f@cks up my concentration..
lol +1
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2013 Zx-14R Green ABS
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