zx12adam
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posted October 03, 2006 04:38 AM
Fuck that stick and ball shit, only sports I recognize are racing and M.M.A.. Everything else is just games.
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zx12adam
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posted October 03, 2006 10:04 PM
I think people are forgetting the big picture.
Hayden has always had a fast in/out riding style. Basically his whole life he's concentrated on corner entery and corner exit. Trac-control has eliminated any advantage as far as corner exits in GP, that's up to the ECU these days. When he joined HRC not only did he have to learn 17 new smooth tracks in 15 different countries completely different from the U.S.'s bumpy and dangerous tracks, a new bike developed by Rossi and his crew led by Burgess, but with trac-conrol which is rode a completely different way. Add to that Hayden has had his crew changed every season(once even during a season!!) and then HRC decides to develop 1 bike to suit 6 different riders and you can see the difficulty in settling in and finding a groove.
Rossi has an exstensive 125/250 background which is all about corner speed, not too much to worry about corner exits on those bikes because it's controlled by your corner speed. Rossi's 1st year in 500 he was riding a bigger version of what he grew up on(2-strokes), plus he had several years already on the same tracks. He came in as Doohan was on his way out, so HRC devoted everything to one man including Burgess and his crew which has more Championships than Rossi by far and now Yamaha is doing it too. The FIM won't stand-up to him on anything because he's a major attraction and has threatened to go to F1 or stay here and do what he wants.
Two completely different racers from two completely different backgrounds. Hayden is the outsider and probably always will be, hard to change an entire life time of experience(in/out style on rough tracks without trac-control) into something completely opposite which is what he's been doing these past two seasons. Hard to reprogram 20+ years of your life but he's been doing it and since had learn to ride consistenly while faster without becoming a crasher and injuring himself like some greats have done and ended their careers. Now he has to learn 800cc bikes like everyone else BUT do you want to bet HRC shoves a new crew under him all over again?
I'd like to see these two race the IOMTT, don't think they have trac-control and it's certainly bumpy and dangerous(never happen though).
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Big Daddy
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Posts: 616
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posted October 04, 2006 07:10 AM
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It's called consistency. The first half of the season he was always on the podium.
Part of that consistency is the fact that his bike didn't fukin break. If the other bikes were as good as the Honda, his podium count would have been much less. But that's racing.
essentially the top 10 bikes are all technically the same so the Yammi breaks, hell they can all break at any given moment so that luck stuff don't wash.
BD
Yes, but they didn't so it must be luck. Anything can break at any time, but luck is luck, The Yamaha quit twice so if it is the same, what was the reason for it.? But it is a moot point, The only way Hayen can win is if the other better riders have bad luck.
wrong again.........
BD
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Big Daddy
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posted October 04, 2006 07:12 AM
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Go watch last years Laguna, he was reeling them in. Of course Hayden has earned where he is. But if you took away the DNFs that the Yamaha and Michelin caused and looked at the place where Rossi would have finished, Hayden would be a distant second. And if Caparossi was in the running, Hayden would probably be behind him as well. The next 2 races will tell the story, If Hayden can hang on, good for him. But Rossi is on a mission and in the eyes of most of the finest riders who ever lived, Rossi is the best they have ever seen.
IF this IF that baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa BS!!! and i have watched Laguna05 on tv and i was present and accounted for so NO 'the patient' was not realling anyone in end of story.
BD
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TedG
Moderator
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posted October 04, 2006 11:13 AM
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Go watch last years Laguna, he was reeling them in. Of course Hayden has earned where he is. But if you took away the DNFs that the Yamaha and Michelin caused and looked at the place where Rossi would have finished, Hayden would be a distant second. And if Caparossi was in the running, Hayden would probably be behind him as well. The next 2 races will tell the story, If Hayden can hang on, good for him. But Rossi is on a mission and in the eyes of most of the finest riders who ever lived, Rossi is the best they have ever seen.
IF this IF that baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa BS!!! and i have watched Laguna05 on tv and i was present and accounted for so NO 'the patient' was not realling anyone in end of story.
BD
I watched it quite a few times, and I saw something different. Believe what you will. But if the trend continues as it has for the last few races, your boy will be sucking wind. Because the only way he will beat Rossi is if #46 has bad luck.
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BlueLIGHTning
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posted October 05, 2006 04:05 PM
I agree 100% hadn't Rossi's Yamaha blown up twice that i saw once when he leading by 4 seconds (forget where the race was) and then when he blew up again in Laguna he would already be in the lead. Really don't care who wins just love the racing but thats the facts. Another time he had to retire his bike with bad bubbling tires so thats at least 3 races with no points and he still might win the championship. Come on give credit where its due hes excellent racer.
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zx12adam
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posted October 05, 2006 06:49 PM
Yes he's an excellent racer, but it's not a matter of luck when he leaves Honda for Yamaha. That was his choice, not his luck.
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TedG
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posted October 05, 2006 07:49 PM
I think his move to Yamaha was to prove it was the rider not the bike and to get a new challenge. Remember he is not bitching like Max or some of the others. The guy could go anywhere, I'd bet Ducati would kill to have him.
I like Hayden, but Rossi is still on another level. He may not win every race but he has something that few other riders have ever had. The guy is a racing machine. Hayden was a flat tracker and most American champions were flat trackers. And having been one myself, I can't help but root for the guy. But I can't ignore Rossi's sheer talent, and to top it off the guy has a decent personality.
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BlueLIGHTning
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posted October 06, 2006 09:42 AM
Rossi with Ducati he would clean up damn them duc's are fast but hey whole new ball game coming with the new 800's so we will have to see who's goin to come up ahead since alot of development is goin to be needed again.
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TedG
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posted October 06, 2006 08:30 PM
Ducati's valves are going to let them rev higher and they are going to be very hard to beat.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted October 07, 2006 06:50 AM
Yamaha will not see a podium in 07.
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philmy3rdleg
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posted October 07, 2006 11:31 AM
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Yamaha will not see a podium in 07.
Wow, thats calling a shot.
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yelozx10r
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posted October 07, 2006 06:30 PM
geeeez big time... I think its a very bold statement saying that yamaha won't see a podium. whats your reasoning?
just rermember rossi helped develop the rcv in the transition from 500 to 990... he also took a non race winning m1 and turned it around. Why should he not develop this 800 into something incredible? Its a clean slate! no previous rider has screwed the bike up and its just the beginning of the 800's with tons of space left for development! which is exactly what rossi and edwards are renowned for.
Ducati and Ilmor are going to be the biggest rivals to yamaha next year. I don't believe hayden and pedrosa can develop a brand spanking new bike. heck hayden hasn't even ridden it yet. But then again isn't that how the 'corporation' of honda work? they'll engineer a perfect motorcycle and if the rider can't ride it... then the rider is not a good rider and will be imminently replaced!
I also think that bridgestone have made an enormous step forward with their tyres in the last couple rounds. I heard they released a 'new' design or compound or something which put that ducati on the top step twice now (if I'mi not mistaken). Next year ducati and bridgestone are gonna cook!
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yelozx10r
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posted October 07, 2006 06:40 PM
OH and for crap sakes, why would rossi 'ignore' a yellow flag when he's got EVERYTHING to lose in these last couple races! geez!
Its obvious he missed it and it was fully investigated and TedG is on the money! Stoner passed him back and that was the reason they gave for not nailing rossi after the race. In fact the only apology I heard they gave to hayden was that it wasn't picked up in the race, not that they didn't penelise him.
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zx12adam
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posted October 07, 2006 07:09 PM
quote:
just rermember rossi helped develop the rcv in the transition from 500 to 990... he also took a non race winning m1 and turned it around. Why should he not develop this 800 into something incredible? Its a clean slate! no previous rider has screwed the bike up and its just the beginning of the 800's with tons of space left for development! which is exactly what rossi and edwards are renowned for.
Forget Rossi, Burgess and his crew have developed/tuned more GP Championship bikes than Rossi has even raced. Rossi is just the talent to take it up another notch. Burgess's bike will be a front runner as always, hopefully Yamaha will give them a reliable package.
As far as Hayden's development skills, well, he's been through 7 different frames DURING this season on a development bike for next year's parts and is still leading the points so he's proven his development ability, if HRC would design a clutch that would get his ass off the line AND into corners his lead in the championship would be double. Hopefully they will give him one, ONE, bike to race next season and concentrate on that alone and do the development beforehand.
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yelozx10r
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posted October 08, 2006 11:21 AM
hey this is honda you're talking about. Have they ever just had 1 bike to race in a season. They're constantly developing new crap for their bikes. Can't be too bad, it has brought them many a championship.
I can remember I think 2002 wsbk,. Bayliss had dominated the entire first half of the year. Then honda started throwing new stuff at Edwards. New frames, engines, etc... Edwards won the championship that year. went down to the last race but he did it.
Mind you that actually sounds familiar... honda putting new parts under hayden hoping to make that one difference that will see him put him consistantly out front.
As far as haydens clutch goes... I think this shows hondas attitude. they think its perfect and the problem is obviously with hayden. Evidence of this attitude is evident is past championships.
I blame honda... for eveything. global warming too!
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TedG
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posted October 08, 2006 05:25 PM
I am not much of a Honda fan, but they know how to make small displacement bike wail. They are the ones that have been pushing the 800 cc deal. They want to take the rider out of the equation so that they can say it is the bike not the rider. When they had Doohan then Rossi and they won championship after championship. Then they lost Rossi and Burgess and with them went the championship. This year they got lucky or gained from Rossi's bad luck.. whatever. Hayden has done an outstanding job keeping his act together, smooth consistent, and the occasional flash of brilliance. And that is the reason they are where they are. But it probably won't be enough if the trend continues. Rossi is most likely going to take the championship again because of his usual brilliance and unusual bad luck. The funny part is Honda's plan to dominate may just backfire, because like I said before that Ducati's valve system is going to let them rev higher and in the end make more power. Also tires are going to be less of a factor, the lack of HP will help tire life.
But in the end, as of today, on equal bikes, Rossi runs away.
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