salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted September 13, 2006 08:17 AM
Fastestbusa,zx1kr or who cares...
Hi guys : question:
Presently have my 04 ZX-10R set at 12.8:1 which is a tad bit rich. I asked dyno tuner to set at because I run U4 which leans it out a tad. Got 158hp with pump gas at 12.8:1 which I use for street. Bike runs good as is..little better mph in 1/4 mile runs when adding u4..
Here ie the consideration:
I am thinking of removing the secondary butterflies and adding short velocity stacks plus might take out air filter just to dragrace...should I ???
I figure being a tad rich will make up for extra lean of U4..but will removing secondaries and adding velocity stacks and no air filter mess up my performance by leaning too much as more air is added??.. probably does not matter much as all out for 1/4 mile I will not be making big differences... don't want to mess my midrange or slow myself down...
know mapping is the best way to tell ..but no can map
Any thoughts...I will try it before going to the track this weekends..wanted input..
Thanks...
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Salsa1
  
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lilmikef
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted September 13, 2006 04:37 PM
 What???? Just ride the damn thing.....
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Broke ass dragracer!!!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted September 13, 2006 05:42 PM
DO NOT PULL THE FLIES W/O THE PROPER MAP!
I'm very busy at the shop right now . But, I've sent a bunch of these maps out. Get one.
You're too rich & U4E doesn't lean you out . I've actually leaned out maps for U4E & MR9.
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salsa1
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posted September 13, 2006 07:23 PM
 Edited By: salsa1 on 13 Sep 2006 20:38
ok just asking...willing to entertain theory and findings by forum members before doing any experimental use...doubt I will have my wide band o2 sensor giving me data and doing all I plan with it before this saturday ( last weekend race) for the year.. no big deal...looking for insights and good info...I have your map zx1kr.. might try it ; I have full muzzy exhaust....
.I was told on the phone by reputable expert that u4 will lean out engine a bit so thats my basis for statements ...once I get my wide band and data logger to work I will know for sure.. right now just going on info available...
thanks.. I just don't just ride the thing.. thats so average lilmikef lol..
have fun...
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Salsa1
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lilmikef
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted September 13, 2006 08:21 PM
quote:
ok just asking...willing to entertain theory and findings by forum members before doing any experimental use...doubt I will have my wide band o2 sensor giving me data and doing all I plan with it before this saturday ( last weekend race) for the year.. no big deal...looking for insights and good info...I have your map zx1kr.. might try it ; I have full muzzy exhaust....
.I was told on the phone by reputable expert that u4 will lean out engine a bit so thats my basis for statements ...once I get my wide band and data logger to work I will know for sure.. right now just going on info available...
thanks.. I just don't just ride the thing.. thats so average lilmikef lol..
have fun...
 I know... no harm ment, just sounds so confusing??? all that wideband,on board recording, rich,lean,u4,o2sensors & stuff.... Im running same confusing shit like camtiming,nos progressive controller,timing retard w/adjustable build times,kill boxs, RPM window switchs ahhhh I think thats it... oh, still gotta dial that dual stage clutch!!!
So anyway the U4 should work out great for ya, dont spray on it??? Ive already toasted one motor doing that. Good luck saturday!!! p
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Broke ass dragracer!!!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted September 13, 2006 10:05 PM
quote:
ok just asking...willing to entertain theory and findings by forum members before doing any experimental use...doubt I will have my wide band o2 sensor giving me data and doing all I plan with it before this saturday ( last weekend race) for the year.. no big deal...looking for insights and good info...I have your map zx1kr.. might try it ; I have full muzzy exhaust....
.I was told on the phone by reputable expert that u4 will lean out engine a bit so thats my basis for statements ...once I get my wide band and data logger to work I will know for sure.. right now just going on info available...
thanks.. I just don't just ride the thing.. thats so average lilmikef lol..
have fun...
You may have misunderstood him. I think he said "when you use U4E you should lean her out alittle bit" LOL
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salsa1
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posted September 14, 2006 05:19 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 14 Sep 2006 09:00
zx1kr : well what do I know..not saying anything adverse as I will see for myself ... but I was convinced U4 being oxygenated would lean out the a/f ratio... thats the rational behind using it.. more oxygen....makes sense to me...
The expert I consulted was one who advised I tell my tuner to go with richer 12.8:1 vs 13:1 ; and then I can add U4 to lean out with and get good performance on street (pump gas) and track (with U4) with just one map....
I notice the exhaust tail pipe emissions turns practically white when I use U4 and goes back to a darker brown/blackish on pump gas...that backs up my original beliefs...whitish equates to lean and darker equates to rich... go figure...lol..
I am also gaining a few mph with U4 as theoretically expected...we both can't be right I can see that...and I don't doubt you are a good tuner...U4 is a subject in itself I guess...so far my assumptions and base knowledge are working for me...I am getting expected results...
like I said no big deal..I will wait for next year races to be more cetain of gains ... she runs really good with what I am doing now...expect to improve more given enough time to sort out data and log results using wideband and datalogger ...
Thanks for replies..
have fun..
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 14, 2006 02:15 PM
I had a map done prior for the Gen3 system and it was putting out 162 RWHP and 80 LBS TQ. I removed the flies on the 10R after mapping was done. Low to mid gains were quite beautiful...although nowhere near as pronounced as on the 14, but now, after that I revisited the Dyno shop and checked the A/F...well, low and behold, it was actually richer than before with the flies in...and (peak) power was down 2 HP...opverall performance was better though, even at that number. He leaned it out and power went back up...but the difference wasn't perceptible to me in the least , just wasted a few hundred bucks for that. I didn't need to do anything when the flies were removed...could have just left it alone...
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FYYFF!!!
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salsa1
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Posts: 5971
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posted September 14, 2006 04:52 PM
Edited By: salsa1 on 14 Sep 2006 18:03
Thanks fastestbusa that was what I had gathered from previous posts.. all makes sense except getting a richer condition.. that does not add up to common theory does it....that is suprising....
But ;..as ya know not everyone including tuners always agree on this stuff.. my tuner swears it is a waste of time to remove flies.. wonder if he is only focused on peak power when he said that....
Main thing is the fact that removing the flies does not yield as lean a condition as on the ZX-14...no one to date has documented or reported a dangerous lean condition ...
I could use a bit more power out of the hole right now (drag racing) .. thats why I am tempted to try without verifying actual A/F numbers....I am fine either way will see tommorow what I decide after I wake up..I can always put flies back in....
Thanks!!
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Salsa1
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fastestbusaaround
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I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 15, 2006 01:01 AM
Edited By: fastestbusaaround on 15 Sep 2006 02:13
When I went to the Dyno after we pulled the flies...I was stunned to see the fuel condition go rich like that...reloaded the map a few times to be sure...same story. Most tuners (except the really good ones), only concern themselves with peak power, but the real gains are lower down, where most people live. Fish also said the same thing about the flies...made a very nice difference in the low and mid range. Put it this way, I got back all of the low end TQ I lost when I installed the Gen 3 setup...and then some. From pure power only and no clutch or pulling, I can pop her up at a bit under 4K...so that should give you some indication of power. No question that pulling the flies results in more low end on the 10R. Those of us who have done it can all tell you the same thing. If you have the right mapping now, pull your flies...it won't lean out.
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FYYFF!!!
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brobin01
Novice Class
Posts: 66
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posted September 15, 2006 01:54 PM
Question .... I have 5K on the tack but Bone Stock. Can I pull the files with OUT a PowerCommander and remapping ?
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted September 15, 2006 06:06 PM
I have the PC3 on mine and it was mapped...but I'm pretty sure that if you pull the flies on a bone stock 10, you'll see a good power gain at 3-5k and not run too lean, but I say that and take ZERO responsibility for that statement.;P
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FYYFF!!!
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