tigger
Expert Class
Posts: 199
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posted July 05, 2006 08:05 PM
Can you get away with 89 octane?
I'm aware that the manual states 91 or higher octane must be used for the 10. Having a relatively high compression stock engine. Is the ECU smart enough to compensate for a lower octane fuel without knocking? I can do it with my CBR 954 but then again the compression is a little less. What do you guys think?
  
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philmy3rdleg
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posted July 05, 2006 08:20 PM
In california alot of gas stations are just 90octane and my Ninja runs fine on all, but my CRF450R will only run on Chevrons 90octane and Arco without a ping while Mobil and Shell make it ping a little . So I would say it depends on what station you fill at. No, the ecu doesn't have a octane checker.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted July 05, 2006 08:38 PM
If it doesn't ping, yes.
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zx1kr
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posted July 05, 2006 09:56 PM
That would be a "knock" sensor.
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fish_antlers
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posted July 05, 2006 11:07 PM
dunno... I always run 94... readily available here... on a few long trips I've run periodic tanks of 87... it's been my experience that often it's best to opt for the el cheapo 87 in a "one horse town" as the high test could be old and manky... had a bad experience once/.
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12r1
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posted July 06, 2006 03:48 AM
Run the lowest octane that does'nt ping/detonate. Your just wasting your hard earned cash running more octane, and it'll run better on the lower octane,too. I've been running 89 in my 12's for a few years now. Runs awesome, no worries.
jeff
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tigger
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posted July 06, 2006 09:08 AM
"fish antlers" Your 10R did'nt knock at all with the 87 octane?
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kz2zx
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posted July 06, 2006 01:11 PM
I race my 636 and 10R on 86 or 87 octane pump gas. No knocks, but knocking is, in my experience, something that happens at lower RPM, such as leaving stop signs.
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cptcrunch
Expert Class
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posted July 07, 2006 03:54 AM
over time 87octane will will cause your engine to knock, for no more than it cost to fill a bike anyway I think its better to run 91 or higher
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kz2zx
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posted July 07, 2006 06:56 AM
quote:
over time 87octane will will cause your engine to knock
Why?
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cptcrunch
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posted July 07, 2006 07:18 AM
The Higher octane u run in your engine the cleaner it will burn, less carbon build-up, and less chance of a spark knock your engine dont have to work as hard to burn the fuel and the plugs stay cleaner. I have been makeing gasoline for 12 years for a major oil company
and I use to think there was no difference in running 87 whitch years ago was an upgrade from 84 octane. the gov. made that happen to increase mileage on newer engines, and make them run cleaner. You may not notice much of a difference right now but a few thousands miles of straight 87 your engine will start to make a few strange ticking sounds
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted July 07, 2006 07:45 AM
Could you share a little of your science? I agree "Octane" is resistance to knock. The rest of that sounds like a load of crap.
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kz2zx
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posted July 07, 2006 07:52 AM
That seems counter intuitive. Lower octane burns hotter, no? Less likely to leave unburned HCs? More likely to make NxOx, but that's gaseous. The other deposits are a function of additives - e.g. Techron or other detergents - and would be present in the same quantities in the different octane blends, or reduced for the cooler temps of the higher octane pump fuels. But the detergents are added to reduce deposit formation....
Dirty engines knock because local regions of lean mixture (high concentration of highly reactive oxygen) are heated, causing early combustion; the local regions are lean because of improper mixing in the intake tract due to deposit buildup. The hot spots are typically plug electrodes and exhaust valve, and possibly carbon deposits on the valve edges or piston face.
Where do the deposits that cause knock appear on a modern bike engine?
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tigger
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posted July 07, 2006 07:59 AM
Can you clarify this a little bit? Why would the engine work harder with a lower octane. Last time I checked an 87 octane has a lower flash point than a 91. Therefore igniting it should be easier. Are we talking about the ZX10R in particular? I should start running 91 octane on my Honda CRX, coz the odometer is creeping up to 320,000 miles. I might foul my plugs, and get the combustion chamber dirty around 500,000 miles....lol
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cptcrunch
Expert Class
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posted July 07, 2006 11:29 AM
Every new engine built now has to meet a certain level of emision even those not built or sold in the State of CAL. all fuels leave deposits of some sort. the newer high rev. high temp engins are built to reduce the amount of emisions put out,whitch requires higher temps and therefor the L.E.L of a certain fuel does not make any difference. No matter how you break it down with science or crap.
you control how much O2 your enginegets and that will make a big difference in how different fuels will effect your engine.
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maximus
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posted July 09, 2006 12:25 PM
My 2003 12r does'nt knock with the lower octane but i like to use 104 octane that the motorcycle dealers here sell in colorado. I dont use it all the time, but dam the bike runs great with it. It also leaves a white residue instead of black on the exhaust,also it smells a whole lot better. When i dont use it i can feel the difference and it also feels like the bike does'nt like the lower octane. It just gets kinda of expensive using it all the time.
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fish_antlers
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posted July 09, 2006 04:14 PM
like I said, I normally run 94 or 92, however when travelling in small shitty towns I will run 87 as locals usually dont buy more expensive gas... had my 12R die once from the shitty gas I bought in Plantina, Ca... I distinctly remember the above ground gas tanks...
dats all.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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D
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posted July 10, 2006 07:23 AM
Our (SoCal) summer gas just sucks - I run 91all the time and this time of year I get the pinging so much on hard accel at lower rpm's that I almost always use an additive.
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flite leader
Zone Head
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posted July 10, 2006 01:38 PM
yes you can if you are just riding
& not racing or crackin the whip
mentioned this in another post
go to the "top tier gas" website
the explan very well the minimun certification on pump gas
by all means BE INFORMED !!!!
reaon being just because the pump is labeled
DOES NOT MEANTHATS WHAT YOU PUMPIN !!!!
some brands go the EXTRA MILE
to ensure you get GOOD GASOLINE
next 89 octane in virginia(va)
is a 50/50 combination of
87 & 91
when you are pumpin a top tierr brand
all three grades are CERTIFIED TO THE MINIMUM !!!!
***** ethanol included.....aromatics etc
please read the certifications !!!
ensuring you get what you are paying for
whereas BP ultimate is ONLY certified for 91 octane
long story shrt
if you are just riding or traveling at Hi-way speeds
89 octane from the top tier stations should cause you NO harm
if yor are racing or for some reason
are at an elevated load on the engine
get the best you can
good luck !!!
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kz2zx
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posted July 10, 2006 03:38 PM
quote:
yes you can if you are just riding
& not racing or crackin the whip
Uh, I race on 86/87 pump gas.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted July 10, 2006 09:55 PM
This is the poster thread for the Literacy Project.
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tigger
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posted July 12, 2006 08:17 PM
I'm running on a full tank of ARCO SoCal gas. I hear no pinging! Should I keep on riding it or what?
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ninja12
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posted July 25, 2006 08:25 PM
 Edited By: ninja12 on 25 Jul 2006 21:26
Brock says premium kills hp in stock bikes.
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Fastmaster
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posted July 27, 2006 06:44 AM
quote:
I race my 636 and 10R on 86 or 87 octane pump gas. No knocks, but knocking is, in my experience, something that happens at lower RPM, such as leaving stop signs.
Pinging takes a certain amount of time to happen and cause an effect on the combustion process. There is enough of that time at low rpm's because the engine is, of course, running more slowly, ie piston going up and down in the bore. But at higher rpm it is less likely to happen because the spark plug ignition beats the hot spots to the punch, so to speak. It can happen at higher rpm mind you but is less likely.
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kz2zx
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posted July 27, 2006 09:14 AM
quote:
quote:
I race my 636 and 10R on 86 or 87 octane pump gas. No knocks, but knocking is, in my experience, something that happens at lower RPM, such as leaving stop signs.
Pinging takes a certain amount of time to happen and cause an effect on the combustion process. There is enough of that time at low rpm's because the engine is, of course, running more slowly, ie piston going up and down in the bore. But at higher rpm it is less likely to happen because the spark plug ignition beats the hot spots to the punch, so to speak. It can happen at higher rpm mind you but is less likely.
Yep, exactly.
____________
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WERA 147
www.dhowellbooks.com
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