fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted November 27, 2005 12:48 PM
good ppoint.. more like.. "Hey.. its 18F out... man.. it's cold.. why aren't I in my SUV with the heated seats on! "
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
   
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Simple Simon
Novice Class
Posts: 94
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posted November 27, 2005 02:59 PM
I didn't think that the tires were the problem. I figured that the sliding probably was the because of the cold temperature. I don't think that I ride too aggressive for these tires and more than likely I will try the tires next. I guess I was more curious about how it slid than the fact that it did slide. With it being that cold and the tires also being cold one can only expect something to slide. I didn't read all of the engineer comments as of yet but I will. Also what fun is it to ride in the SUV with the heated seats any how?
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Don't show your stupidity, wear a helmet.
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fish_antlers
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The Truth is Out There
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posted November 27, 2005 07:59 PM
so I ask you again... did you read the PDF?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
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posted November 28, 2005 07:33 AM
I saved to PDF...
good job sir..we waited long enough...
now if we can only get the DBZ MIR pics!!
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VOZ
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quickwilly
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted November 28, 2005 10:25 AM
Great article.
Looks like Ya'll stopped by Deans on the way to LB
I shoed the 12 with the Stradas recently. No complaints.
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted November 28, 2005 11:01 AM
This is great information, thanks everyone for taking the time to gather data and write it up!
I've always been one of those guys who bought relatively sticky street tires in the hopes that it would buy me that little extra "just in case I needed it" when I found myself in a bad situation. I know that my bike *and* my tires are capable of doing much more than I am, so my reasoning may be flawed. I've used up plenty of 207's, 208's and 010's since I've been riding (5 years), and am on Pilot Powers now, but I've been thinking about trying something more in the sport touring range to increase my miles. This type of feedback really helps...
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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robertinargyle
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 28, 2005 12:17 PM
THANKS FISH!!! I have been running Diablos and getting 2,500 miles a set. On a long tour like you describe, this is VERY inconvenient. Stradas go on for next tour. Thanks again for an excellent report.
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morrisjl2
Novice Class
Posts: 50
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posted November 28, 2005 05:39 PM
quote:
tire pressure always has alot to do with traction and wear. If the tire is too hard/too much air, it cant conform to the surface of the street and you put down a smaller contact batch and get less feel from it, kinda like when they use to use solid tires. With too little air the tire carcus cant support the weight of rider and bike and the bike feels like it wallows.....Usually the manufacturers recommendations are a bit high for maximum traction on tires. I know that I usually end up somewhere in the neighborhood of 34-35 lbs of air on street tires, while riding on the street. On street tires on the track I am usually in the 32-34 lb area with pressures. With tracktires on the track I am usually in the area of 29-33 lbs of air pressure. these are all general pressures that vary from tires size to tire manufacturer. As little as 1-2 lbs of air will greatly effect the handling of the bike.
Let me add this to this blurb of info, I have NEVER ridden on tires like the Stradas or Z6's, I ride too aggressibvely to do that, its cheap in sureance for me to put good supersort tires on my bike so the traction is there when I need it, and I dont like swapping tires for the track.
I have been using the Pilot Powers as of late and really, really like them. My first set got a trackday in the rain on Nashville Super Speedway and were great, the let me go out and drag my knee in the rain, which was a first for me that day. then they got a 2nd trackday on Putnam Roadcourse in Indy. These tires gave me 2300 miles on the street along with these 2 trackdays. My current set have given me 3000 miles on the street and are still about 50% treadlife left.....
Good jog HDL...What is your weight? I have been playing with my setting and would like to try yours (if they are not the same).
I am 73" 195 lbs.
Suspension set up will also help you prolong the life of the tires, setting sag will be easy, setting the rebound and compression dampening is a bit tougher as it varies with riding conditions. What I usually do is fing a good middle of the road setting and leave it. When I go to a track after the first session I will fiddle with the setting a little to get a better feel, then I put it back in the middle of the road setting when I am done....Just giving some ideas and expierences from what I have found in my own expierences.....What I will tell you all is done be afraid to turn the knobs on your susspension, my ZX10 felt like hammered shit out of the box, and took my suspension guy half a track day to help me sort out.....his setup helped me knock 3 seconds a lap off Roebling Road, (not that I am that fast) and made the bike alot more fun to ride......
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morrisjl2
Novice Class
Posts: 50
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posted November 28, 2005 05:44 PM
 Edited By: morrisjl2 on 28 Nov 2005 17:45
Good job HDL... What is your weight? I have been playing with my setting and thought I would try yours for some swift road riding. Thanks in advance.
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted November 28, 2005 07:16 PM
I dont have acess to my bike right this minute, as soon as I do I will get those setting for you to try....keep in mind my bike is an 04 and they made a few changes between 04 and 05...
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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Ninjaman12R
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Posts: 4767
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posted November 29, 2005 06:58 AM
Excellent read fish and freek. I will admit I am skeptical at best for one reason, and one reason only. The mileage that freek gets out of the 207s, 010s and 014s on his 12R is double what I get. So that has me a bit worried to say the least.
I've done a lot of changes to my riding style, especially the last part of this riding season mainly to be nicer to my 5 year old 12R that has been riden agressively since day uno, and to attempt to get more than 1200 - 1400 miles out of a rear tire. It's made me a little faster in all honesty due to my efforts made in keeping every input I make to the bike as smooth as possible. Carrying one gear higher to give the rear tire a break from the 12s ability to just shred a tire on exit has made me carry more speed into a corner. Sure exits aren't nearly as fun or exciting, but again Lil' Red is no spring chicken and I need to start taking that into consideration. Plus it's no secret that I am a cheap bastard that has always bitched about buying tires.
Where does all of this leave me??? I will say that the only tire I've ran that consistently had me on the verge of shitting my pants was the D207s that came on the bike. ANY tire that I've ran since then has allowed me to roll on pretty good. I think the 014s are my favorite tire out of the ones I've ran. (M1s,010s,207s) I have also ran 2 sets of Supercorsas which only shine when ridden at a ridiculous pace on roads like the Gap, Skyway, etc. Other than that they are crap on the street because you can't keep them up to temp. So I guess I am gonna try a set of these high mileage tires and make my own judgement. I don't think I'd like them on a Deal's Gap trip, but you never know until you try them out.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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fish_antlers
Administrator
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posted November 29, 2005 08:38 AM
ninja... you need to understand something about freek when he reports that mileage... in the past he has had a tendacy t ride this tires well past the wear bars and right to the cord. As for me.. I never had the chance to ride them on my 12R .. .I certainly got similar mileage to yours out of tires when I had my 12R ... I ride pretty agressively and I did run the Roadtecs on the 10R and had no problems to report.
WHat can I say... we were equally as skeptical.
My personal choice, if only for sheer mental "insurance" (although our own tests showed no net gain) would be to run a Diablo front and a Strada rear... that would give you the mental "insurance" that the front wouldnt wash out and the extra wear out of the rear... It would also wear the front and the rear out at about the same time so you could buy a new pair altogether,
That's my plan and I'm stickin to it!
(and when I say "mental insurance" that's exacty what I mean... ther was nothing to indicate that the street performance of these tires was any worse than their softer counterparts. In fact in certin circumstances ie: cold/ wet/ damp the performance was actually better )
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Ninjaman12R
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posted November 29, 2005 10:14 AM
fish I must admit that I too run a tire past what most people with any sense would.  Because as I've said several times "I'm a cheap motherfucker".  I am trying to do better though.
I have already thought about the possibilities of running the softer front. I can accept the rear wiggling a bit more, but the front needs to stay planted. IMHO all of your confidence comes from the frontend. If it doesn't feel planted then you ain't gonna push it.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted November 29, 2005 11:46 AM
ninjaman, there are a few reasons for the difference in tire wear, one of which fish has already pointed out, that being my habit of going to or just short of cords. beyond that, i have a pretty average mix of riding. i dont' get out on a balls to the wall ride all that often. honestly i'd have to say about 25% of the miles i put on a tire are really given them a workout. i suspect u spend 50% of more of your time in that zone from what i've read. i don't have a car (in the summer at least) so i use my bike for everything, including getting groceries, takin out the garbage, and visiting friends and family (the latter a 300km round trip), so there's alot of easy commuting in there. i wouldnt be surprised if the laguna trip the test is mostly based on (about 6500 of the 11000kms i put on the tire was on that trip) was well over my normal % of hard riding.
another reason is, as fish puts it, i "lug" the engine. i spend half my time at 3 to 4k RPM, rarely going over 7 or 8, and even during one run from the campground to Wildwood on hwy 36 with dino, redridinghood, and turboblew, probably the quickest single ride on the whoel trip, i didnt crack 5000 rpm, yet still kept up to TB on the 10R (nowhere near dineo & red tho ). i'm certain this propensity to keep it in high gear makes for an easier job on the tires, as i simply don't get that ripsnorting acceleration u get at 7K+. also i use the brakes alot, but not sure that i jam them on quite as hard as u may.
i think what's more important here is the comparison than the absolute numbers. i got over double the mileage frmo the Stradas as i have from any other tire, but they never let me down whiel riding jsut as hard as i ever have. note that i have overpowered 2 previous tires with shiny-side-down consequences in teh past: once on the original D207s when i did a 35mph lowside, probably thanks to the tires having cooled down some in the 15minute sit they had jsut before, and possibly from unweighting as i beleive i hit hard parts just before. more recently i had the front end tuck under (which basically ottalled the bike) when my front BT010 (which was very nice and hot) gave in under heavy downhill braking. i was never a fan of the front 010 as half the time i'd attempt a stoppie, it would lock, whereas the D207s never did that (and either did the M1 or BT012). beyond those 2 occasions, i've broken loose all 4 rear tires mentioned on occasion, and laid down the occasional darky, so it's not that i havent ever been anywhere need their limits. i had the Stradas break loose a bit here and there, but no more than any other tire did. grankted ti took me a while to get there because for the first couple thousand kms i babied them a bit, nto trusting their capabilities. over time of course i learned there was no need to take it easy and went to riding same as with any other tire.
beyond what i mentioned above, keep in mind that noone, including the Pirelli/Metzler representatives fish & princesskiwi spoke to, claims they have EQUAL grip to other models. i think the engineers suggested about 15% less (read the PDF to check for yourself), so they probably wouldnt be the best choice for a track day or track-day speed street riding (although i hear there is one track school using Stradas). so if you are honestly one of those VERY rare IMO people who keep up track-like speeds on the street (consistent knees down, dragging hard parts) then maybe these arent for you. however i think those people are rare to say the least and IME alot of the people who claim to ride crazy fast on teh street are jsut stroking their ego. i do not consider myself a fast ride by any stretch of the imagination (i have humbling experiences riding with the likes of dino to kill any such aspirations) yet i've found myself riding as fast or faster than jsut about anyone i've ridden with, including loud mouths with the latest R1 and track take-offs and claims of frequent track days. but FAR more importantly, IMHO if you're goign that fast on teh street, you're playing into Darwin's hands. this is of course stating the obvious, but with track riding you leave no margin for error thx to the controlled environment and (usually) friendly crash zones. no such luck on the street.
end result? for all but a select few, these tires should provide approx double the mileage you're used to and provide all the grip you'll need. i know i plan to get another set as my next tires.
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Ninjaman12R
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Posts: 4767
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posted November 29, 2005 03:04 PM
Thanks for the input freek. You're pretty much spot on in that most all of my riding is in thrash mode. I'm trying to do better as I stated earlier, and for several reasons. One being excessive tire wear, tickets instantly come to mind as well. I don't claim to be fast either, but around here at home I always seem to check out and be all by my lonesome. To really experience riding with someone at the pace I enjoy I have to look up Chris and Harry. But there are tons of guys out there that could smoke us. We do alright for a bunch of degenerate fence burners, we're usually at or near the front of any pack we ride in. I usually get elected to set the pace at the gap events, but either of us 3 guys are easily up to that task. We've been humbled by a few locals, but suprisingly us old fuckers on the ol dinosaurs mostly pass instead of get passed. Go figure........... 
I do ride too fast on the street, and it has bitten me before. It may bite me again, or it may kill me who knows. But on the roads I frequent here locally I'm apt to push it more than I do anywhere else due to the fact that I know them so well. Plus I've got a lot of seat time on my bike and pretty much know what "our" limits are. I really like the 014s that are on my bike now, but I've plowed the front a few times and couldn't count how many times the rear has slid / spun. Maybe a little less grip might cool my jets a bit, or it could put me in the hospital?????? As I stated earlier, I don't think I'd like the tires on a gap trip due to the demands that would be put on them. But for my rides here at home I could probably learn to like them. Only time will tell............
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted November 29, 2005 06:41 PM
Time for someone from the land of little curves and abrasive roads checks in.
I know we all like to think when we're going straight that either a wheel is in the air or the rear is smoking and in the curves the bike is kicked out like Nickey backing it in. But in all reality that's just not the case. (this plays into what frEEK was getting to) Of course there are times when you go ride you really RIDE but that's got to be the minority of the time. If you do constantly ride to that excess on the street keep your lifeflight beeper handy because you're going to wad up something and it's most likely going to be ugly. We lost a friend here a while back and when people start shaking their dicks by telling tails of overriding on the street I'm always compelled to say leave the qualifying for the track and make it home a minute later and in one piece.
Now that the preaching is over on to the tires.
A friend here that's a dealer recommended a while back that I try a different tire on the rear of my bike since it had a tendancy to eat rubber at an excessive rate. He thought a BT-020 would be best on the rear and said to leave the BT-014 on the front. I must say I wasn't all that thrilled with the idea but he said that he was so confident that if didn't like the tire that he would buy it back.
Well knowing that I would never take him up on the buy back offer I did think it worth a try. I must say after many miles this will probably be the way my bike will stay when I'm riding around the home area. Luckily I have two sets of wheels and when I made the last trip to the Gap in my less than full capacity I put a new BT-014 on the rear and promptly wore it out that week. Now the BT-020 is back on and I'm due to order another set of tires for the spare set and I'm leaning towards the same setup. From reading the article here it's not far off from what I was told and experienced before.
Now I need to head to the garage and change the oil, I'm going riding tomorrow.
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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Ninjaman12R
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posted November 30, 2005 06:00 AM
Dave,
How much different does your bike feel with the 020 on the rear instead of the 014? I've ridden an FZ1 with a similar setup, 010 front - 020 rear. Didn't really care that much for the 020, and that was on an FZ1 which is way easier on a rear tire than the 12R IMHO.
Also, I'd like to point out that there are a few people that indeed DO really ride as you put it, most anytime they roll their bike out of the garage. I am one of those people, and say what you want, I know the risk and I've paid for it in the past and know I will more than likely pay for it again in the future. I didn't buy my 12R for any other reason than to thrash the backroads, and take on my mountain trips. I am not interested in riding it for any other reason. If I wanted to ride in a more civilized manner I'd have bought a different bike.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted November 30, 2005 05:44 PM
Hey Rick,
It does feel different, not bad, just different. I can spin it up pretty easy coming out of a corner but it's a stickey spin and not that barefoot on a wet smooth tile floor out of control kind of feeling. I think it's easy to spin any tire with these bikes, but some are slick and scary and others feel like they are going to catch and toss. A controlled spin up is kinda fun. If I'm doing that it will usually buzz a little then start to float the front. More slippery that the 014 but still predictable.
I do know there are people that ride like you almost every time they go out. I did notice the large indents in the front of your seat from your....umm, well.. courage. I just point it out because there's a time and place for all of that but I'm not talking to anyone that doesn't know better (or anyone that would listen to me).
Besides I'd rather talk to you than about you so keep it at 95% so we can keep hearing new stories of how much of an ass clown you are for a long time to come.
Now of you want to talk tires I was in a shop here today that had a Busa with a stretched single sided swingarm dual chain setup with a 300 tire. It's a beautiful setup, but I bet it turns like a school bus.
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted November 30, 2005 06:10 PM
dave, what you describe about the 020 is exactly why i was decidedly skeptical about the Strada. i had considered going to an 020 before but i felt i needed all the 010 could offer so an 020 woudl just not cut the mustard. of course in reality the 010 probably was more tire than i _needed_, but they always felt a little skittish to me, jsut not all that confidence inspiring.
btw, that reminds me of one point about e the Stradas not mentioned in the artile (i think) that really surprised me: they seemed to have quicker turn in than any other tire i've run. this was not the first time i'd run a 180 either, and i'm also not confusing it with coming off worn tires to a new itre. these were EVEN quicker than that. just a result of a pointier profile i assume.
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted November 30, 2005 07:34 PM
man there's a lot of thread cross posting around here
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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Ninjaman12R
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Posts: 4767
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posted December 01, 2005 04:18 AM
Edited By: Ninjaman12R on 1 Dec 2005 05:51
Ass clown, lmfao!!!!! I'd rather keep it at about my normal 70% if that's ok.
Dave I guess that's why a lot of my friends say at times they hang around me just to see what kinda crazy shit I'll do next. WTF am I telling you this for, you've been to the rallys and know that I'm a stupid bastard.
I bet you can smoke that 020, I know how the FZ1 I rode could spin it and they make about as much torque as your average Timex!!!!!!
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted December 01, 2005 06:59 AM
Ass clown?! LOL that's good. Shit the only riding I get to do anymore is at the Gap and that is at the pace that Rick speaks about. I ride some around the city here but that's like playing russian roulette with the idiot's on the road. Now I really really like the 014's they gave me the best feel out of any I've ridden on. Are there better, sure but quite frankly I don't care. Rick and I lay tons of darkies out of turns and the feeling I have when doing it is like Dave described, sticky sliding. Love it.
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Ninjaman12R
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Posts: 4767
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posted December 01, 2005 09:58 AM
Yeah, laying darkies RULES!!!!!!!!
It's unsafe though, so therefore I must never do it again.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted December 01, 2005 04:12 PM
you two ass clowns are some darkie laying silly bastidges.....:P
Me on the other hand, I am a fine upstanding, responsible, law-abiding citzen.....I wouldn never do such things.......you would never see me riding down I-40 at 160 MPH. You would never see me riding above the speedlimit at the gap, and certainly not on the Cherohola.....And I most certainly wouldnt do those kinds of things on anything but Supersport tires....Pilot Powers for me thank you....
Everyone can preach about how much mileage they get out of the Stradas, or 020's....or any other tire for that matter.....I will always go with a good supersport tire as when I NEED the extra traction, I WANT it there....I dont ride like and Ass Clown on the street, but I have gone into a few conners that were much sharper than I thought and have had to drag a peg to make it through....for times like this, the stickier tires and less mileage is well worth it.....JMO
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted December 02, 2005 06:01 AM
quote:
you two ass clowns are some darkie laying silly bastidges.....:P
Me on the other hand, I am a fine upstanding, responsible, law-abiding citzen.....I wouldn never do such things.......you would never see me riding down I-40 at 160 MPH. You would never see me riding above the speedlimit at the gap, and certainly not on the Cherohola.....And I most certainly wouldnt do those kinds of things on anything but Supersport tires....Pilot Powers for me thank you....
Everyone can preach about how much mileage they get out of the Stradas, or 020's....or any other tire for that matter.....I will always go with a good supersport tire as when I NEED the extra traction, I WANT it there....I dont ride like and Ass Clown on the street, but I have gone into a few conners that were much sharper than I thought and have had to drag a peg to make it through....for times like this, the stickier tires and less mileage is well worth it.....JMO
That grip is a wonderful thing. I think I'm gonna get a set of Pilot Powers and run them at the gap next May. I've heard NOTHING but great things about those tires. I can't fault the 014s though, they've impressed me with how well they do work, and seem to be pretty consistent from the time they are new until they are worn slap the fuck out.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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