redelk
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posted August 30, 2005 08:54 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 31 Aug 2005 05:43
Why the ZX-10R will be "ALL NEW" for '06
WARNING: The following post is purely speculative and are opinionated conclusions of it's auther and is drawn from a limited amount of publically available information. The author in no way claims that every statement in this post is "absolute fact". Many are "educated guesses" at best. This post also has little to do with what changes in motorcycle designs that may be coming in the near or distant future.
Just an explanation as to why these changes will come.
KHI's Consumer Products Division has been repeatedly embarrassed over the past half decade with poor judgement concerning update/redesign schedules and the lack of new model releases for what is supposed to be their "cutting edge" product line (read:sportbikes). The multi-year, lingering design death of the P series ZX-7R was extremely painful to watch. Especially once being a P2 owner myself. With nothing more than minimal attention given to the ZX-9R while the liter bikes started to take hold of the market, just poured salt in the "braggin' rights" wounds of the Kawasaki faithful.
Honda made several attempts to play catch up in the liter world with their 900RR growing into a 929 and later a 954 (we won't talk about the RC51). Even with the 954RR, it wasn't long before they realized that until they stepped it up to a full liter, they would not just play the "bride's maid" to the other brands, but would be a mere spectator in the church... still several pews ahead of the ZX-9R.
KHI's design focus on the ultimate "hyperbike" (the ZX-12R) sucked away valuable R&D resources from any possible liter bike contender and barely left enough behind to start in the design of the new 6RR/636. It wasn't until the introduction of the A model 12R that some of these resources were finally freed up to finish up on the 636 and start contemplating a possible entry into the liter class. It was these delays that cause KHI to "start a lap down" when it came to having a liter bike. So, we have the deaths of the 7R and 9R, followed by the less than stellar reviews of the '00 12R and you end up with a chicken coop's worth of egg on one's corporate face.
Rumors of Dalmer Benz considering a hostile buy out of KHI had be circulating at that time. This had little to do with the "embarrassments" of KHI's Consumer Products Division and more to due with the Asian financial markets (aka: "Asian Flu") and struggling heavy industries manufacturers (the "H"&"I" of KHI). These rumors were not long after DB's "Merger of Equals" with Chrysler. If it wasn't for the slight rebound of the Asian industrial markets, combined with the poor sales figures Chrysler delivered to their now "equal partner", there might have been several Germans sitting on KHI's Board of Directors. Instead, DB lost the financial muscle to be of any serious threat to buying out KHI. It was likely more about this possible take over than the marketing embarrassments in their sportbike line that lead to two interesting "happenings" at KHI.
The first was a "cooperative agreement" with Suzuki. Press releases told of a sharing of basic design features of their respective cruiser (and possibly "other") lines. It was hinted that it was just so the two manufacturers could combine their buying powers when it came to the acquisition of some components provided by outside vendors. In other words, if both used the same turn signals, mirrors, footpegs, etc.) on their cruisers, they could get them cheaper. Both were very adamant in stating that there would be no "cooperation" or "sharing" of sportbike design information or parts.
Still, many feared the worse and this was just a precursor to a full blown merger between the two or maybe KHI was going to sell off their CPD. The merger fears were compounded when "similar" models of dirt bikes and ATVs started showing up in the Suzuki and Kawasaki dealerships. So it has turned out that indeed, this "agreement" is nothing more than cost cutting on parts and filling holes in their respective product line... at least for now. The "Chicken Little" thinking of their being a "Kawauki" has not materialized, nor is there any hint of such happening in the near future.
The second "happening" at KHI was a serious shake up in corporate management and the various divisions' departments. Not just in the CPD, but several other of the divisions at KHI as well. Some departments were combined, other staff and personnel were "reassigned" , while others just "disappeared" off the corporate directory.
Since all we care about here is the Consumer Products Division, we'll stick with just that.
It was not all that long ago that the CPD was nothing more than a pimple on KHI's "financial butt". The closing or selling off of this division would not have really made that much of a dent in the annual report's bottom line. Lucky for us, that struggling of Asia's heavy industries markets, combined with continued growth in global motorcycle sales, breathed new life in the CPD and made them a bigger "player" in boardroom discussions. No longer was the CDP just a source for pretty pictures for the cover of the KHI annual reports (the W650 might not have been that wise of a choice one year).
All the same, when the boardroom "spotlight" steered towards the CPD, it also exposed the recent "marketing faux pas" committed within this division. It was this moment, I feel, that the "powers that be" said NO MORE! Kawasaki's CPD was no longer to be an "also ran" in the world of recreational vehicles. No only did the 636 suddenly appear on the scene, but new cruisers, ATVs and Jetskis also started appearing on magazine covers. There seemed to be a more intense focus on product placement in everything from movies to hunting shows. Even "reality" shows were considered and used.
The design work being done on the ZX-10R was given more attention and design aspects learned from the 6RR/636 were to also play a roll. It can be debated if it was "the chicken or the egg" that was first when it comes to which bike got what features from the other (10R to 636 or 636 to 10R), but the end results is exactly what KHI had intended with both their 600 and new liter class bikes.
KHI might not be able to claim the title of "Techno King" when it comes to cutting edge, "outside the box" design of sportbikes (no ECU controlled dampers or stacked headlights), but they have more than proved that they not only know how to, but CAN build class leading motorcycles. The sting of previous experiences is a ever present lesson that they will not easily forget. It is not good enough to simply "win the title", they have to KEEP IT! This thinking does not just apply to sportbikes, but their complete line of recreational and utility (aka MULE) products.
Since sportbikes are the most visible products when it come to representing the forward thinking and technologically advanced designs of a motorcycle manufacturer, one must always "stand out" if they wish to claim to be a leader. Previous life spans of a sportbike design was three years at the most. One can only go so far with BNG (Bold New Graphics) and little to no real improvements on the bike's actual design. With the 600 class being as cut throat as it is, two years is all one can expect before a completly new, "white sheet" design is considered. Now that the 600s have started to surpass the performance of the old 750s, the liter class can not just rest on their laurels. The recent article in one of the motorcycle magazines debating the aspect of "Is Bigger Better?", underscores the blurring of the lines between the the practical applications of a 600 versus a liter bike.
Since the liter bike has become the "flagship" bike for all of the manufacturers (sorry 12R and Busa guys), they must do everything they can from letting those "lines" get too blurred. It will always be a tightrope act (net not included) to promote their 600s as being everything you'd ever need and still say that their liter bikes are the ultimate sportbike experience. Because of this, the "two year design life" will equally apply to the liter bike class. Anything longer than that and they will run the risk of their bike not even being considered by the magazines for a comparison or "shoot out" review. The best that they could hope for would be a kind blurb in the "Long Term Testing" section.
KHI has now tasted "marketing/sales blood" with the 10R and the 636 (as well as several other products in other lines)... and they like it. A LOT! After many years of just metionings and less than runner up finishes, being the one everyone else is trying to knock off feels kind nice. How KHI has recently handled their racing programs (MotoGP, SBK, AMA, ProStar, etc.) is probably a topic of discussion best left for another day. I am sure that in some back room, board members and management alike have sworn that product design will be an constantly on going thing, full speed ahead, 24/7, even before the current manufactured design has debuted in the showrooms across the globe. As it should be.
This is where some "outside of the box" thinking might start to show up in the designs of their future sportbike line. Thus the possibilities of dampers (a first for recent Kawi designs) and trick headlights, as well as other "wizbang" features showing up on new models could easily be a reality. One can only chuckle under their breath if a Ohlins (labeled) damper is used with the already present Nissin master cylinders... considering who owns those two companies (Yamaha and Honda in that order). Since they have already dumped KYB forks on the 10R for Showa (another Honda owned company), maybe KHI could really step up to the plate and dump the Nissin master cylinder units for Brembos...
NAAAAAAAAW. I ain't goin' there.
My friends, welcome to the Golden Age of Sportbike Design. It will only get better from here, so enjoy the ride.
Source: Bikeland.org
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
   
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 30, 2005 09:27 PM
Dude you damn sure can do a lot of thinking there! Let's hope you're right. 
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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matt sterbator
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posted August 30, 2005 09:31 PM
cliff notes please ? 
j/k 
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extremelean
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posted August 30, 2005 09:51 PM
WHAT did he just say????
I'm cornfused
Nice read red!!
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ozzy
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need guberment cheese
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posted August 31, 2005 03:55 AM
Hmmm, dont know if I agree with all that, but I cant dispute it either.
IF there is an ALL new 10R it will be the last upgrade to that model IMHO.
800cc's is where its going to be, and either you play in this new sand box, or take you toys and go home.
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fish_antlers
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The Truth is Out There
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posted August 31, 2005 04:42 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 31 Aug 2005 05:44
"tis on the front page/News... Nice read sherman..
editted to insert Bikeland as source
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trenace
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posted August 31, 2005 06:35 AM
I disagree that the consumer market is going to prefer 800 cc on account of MotoGP going there.
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kz2zx
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posted August 31, 2005 08:05 AM
What if AMA superbike does, too?
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TedG
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posted August 31, 2005 09:19 AM
Something else has to happen in the way the public and the magazines see things. Look at the latest shootouts, the 10 wins them overall. But the magazines want Suzuki to win and they make no bones about it. And even if the Suzuki doesn't handle as well, and isn't as comfortable it will still be percieved as a better bike maybe because of the extra 1.5 hp. IMHO
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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trenace
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posted August 31, 2005 09:42 AM
Even if AMA Superbike does, I still don't think most buyers are going to want 800's instead of 1000's.
Literbikes vs 1200's and 1300's, yes, but not because the racebikes are using about a liter, but because of the literbikes being much lighter and more maneuverable bikes.
I'd expect the manufacturers can continue making literbikes that are about the same weight and size as 750s, or in other words about the same size as 800's, but with more power and more torque which the street rider will care more about than care about "it doesn't have any more displacement than the racebike, see I'm riding the same displacement Rossi is."
A few will want the exact race reps of course but not the bulk of sales... just personal opinion.
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redelk
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posted August 31, 2005 09:47 AM
quote:
IF there is an ALL new 10R it will be the last upgrade to that model IMHO.
800cc's is where its going to be, and either you play in this new sand box, or take you toys and go home.
I seriously doubt that this will be the case for at least three if not more model years. Even if MotoGP goes to 800cc tomorrow. It will take at least two years for AMA to follow, if they even try to. The switch from 2 strokes to four strokes was painful enough and hardly happened overnight. The "speed issue" is not that big of a deal in AMA as it is claimed to be in MotoGP.
Even the most simple of minded sportbike consumer knows that there is little to no relationship be The Doctor's Yamaha and Matt's Suzuki. They know you can't get Rossi's bike at the local dealer. Here in the U.S., the belief that there is "no replacement for displacement" will make it difficult to give up the liter bikes. It will take many years before the big four can come up with a acceptable street version 800cc bike that will even come close to liter bike performance. Even if they started doing the R&D two years ago.
With no clear guidelines coming from FIA and not even a thought being given to 800s in AMA, the 10R (and others) will easily see two more "all new" designs in it's future.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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philmy3rdleg
Expert Class
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posted August 31, 2005 10:43 AM
Wouldn't it be easier for alot of these MotoGP teams/corporations to move back to 500cc two strokes rather than try to make a 800cc four competitive? If we all look back we can see four stroke technology had leaped when Motocross started allowing fourstrokes, and then bounded when MotoGP followed. I don't know, call me near sighted but I don't see a 800cc 4stroke competing with a 500cc 2stroke. So I fear a 2stroke rebelion and a null in 4stroke improvements. But then again with the current crop of MotoGP bikes we still have alot of cool stuff to trickle down to us over the next few years to keep us happy.
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TedG
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posted August 31, 2005 11:25 AM
No way, the 800s will be absolute screamers that will push the technology to new highs. The big problem with 2 strokes is they can't bring the technology to the streets. The whole idea behind racing is to sell bikes and bringing technology to the showroom sells bikes. I would be willing to bet the 800 will be faster than the 500s. Not a brutal, but faster.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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TurboBlew
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posted August 31, 2005 01:51 PM
Two strokes are primative compared to the 4strokes... ask any MotoGP team.
Race on Sunday sell on Monday (or Tuesday at most bike shops)... has always been the manufacturers moto.
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BROOKLYNNYZX12
Zone Head
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posted August 31, 2005 02:10 PM
Edited By: BROOKLYNNYZX12 on 31 Aug 2005 15:17
I read a magazine article ,I cant recall which one where the writer mentioned that Suzuki was much more press friendly than Kawasaki when dealing with new model tests...I guess the PR staff from Suzuki was and is a little more savvy with how they deal with the media,hence better reviews.Hopefully the new management perspective will change this.Doug Meyer touched on this at the Grudge Race about Kawasaki's previous management team sort of losing touch so to speak.He was optomistic things would be turning around.
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Orient Express Top Street Bike Winner 8-4-07
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redelk
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posted August 31, 2005 03:29 PM
I am getting this very ugly, sinking feeling that I will be eating my words about the Photoshop aspect of the MCN pics. The number of folks and media outlets saying that it is has been growing by the hour . Because of current/future Euro and CA emissions standards, the "Double Barreled/Semi-Undertail" could very well be a reality. Those pipes can be further explained away by the desire to "RAISE" the CG... not lower it. Other arguments over headlight size are moot when considering the "Projector Beam" possibility.
One can not help but believe the KMC marketing folks are at the very least, disappointed by the opinions shared in most of the current ZX-10R, Suzuki, Yamaha and even Honda forums. I think that this comment made at the ZX-10R.org forum summed it up best...
"I guess that's what we get for making fun of the 05 gix 1k exhaust!!"
While others (including myself, to some degree) desperately cling to the hope that this is just a big misinformation campaign, it will take a lot more than claimed "reduced weight, better handling and more HP" to overcome the strong negative feelings towards undertail exhaust. Even something seemingly minor like leaving the tach basically unchanged (if it hasn't been changed), could create some degree of backlash by not only the owners, but the magazines as well.Doing something like displaying digits next to the speedo number won't cut it either. Just because 6RR/636 owner swallowed it does not translate into liter bike owners flocking to this "styling genius". The K5, and now the R6, has proven that a smaller "semi-under belly" design can be done.
If looks could kill, this model is not a killer, but more like it has been killed.
Oh yeah, and thanks fro the radial front brake master cylinder. It just confirms what I have been saying is that the '04-'05 system had room for "improvement".
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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