fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 15, 2005 07:55 AM
WTF?? am I chopped liver? Bovine.. now yer RESTATING what I have axed!  !! READ MY QUESTION BIATCH!!!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
   
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted June 15, 2005 10:02 AM
*cough*god complex*cough*
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted June 15, 2005 10:24 AM
Did anyone mention the fact the rotors come shipped to the dealer with a coating that requires removal before use?? just wondering.
BD
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted June 15, 2005 10:45 AM
quote:
Did anyone mention the fact the rotors come shipped to the dealer with a coating that requires removal before use?? just wondering.
BD
ooooo Trying to piss off fish....
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted June 15, 2005 10:54 AM
i's just a country boy goin phishin is'all
BD
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted June 15, 2005 11:38 AM
I am sorry did fish say something???
Fish I have thoroughly cleaned the brakes with brake cleaner. I am not sure what bovine means by bedding in the brakes? I seat the brakes when I get a new bike or put on a new set of pads by running the bike pretty fast and squezing the brake lever very hard almost to the point of doing a stoppie. I do this 5 or 6 times. I assuem this is what you mean by bedding the brake pads. I am going to put some new pads on it as well, so I will have to seat the new ones on the race track.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted June 15, 2005 11:51 AM
HDL try bedding in the new set of pads a different way...............its quite possible they got glazed with your aforemention method.
BD
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fattkaw
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted June 15, 2005 11:52 AM
 Edited By: fattkaw on 15 Jun 2005 12:53
fish that wouldn't change how firm the lever feels. the coating would change the bite of the pads.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted June 15, 2005 12:50 PM
quote:
HDL try bedding in the new set of pads a different way...............its quite possible they got glazed with your aforemention method.
BD
I couldn't agree more.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 15, 2005 11:59 PM
quote:
fish that wouldn't change how firm the lever feels. the coating would change the bite of the pads.
Isnt that almost the same thing? think about it... like REALLY think about it...
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted June 16, 2005 06:13 AM
Edited By: bovinespongiformencephalo on 16 Jun 2005 07:24
How to seat pads:
Braking is a mix of deposition and erosion. Some material is transfered to the rotor, and some is worn away. This is why many people switch from the stock sintered pads to organic pads and can't understand why suddenly their brakes suck. Then they blame the pads. It's because you need an even layer of pad material transfered onto the rotor for the brakes to work properly. It's not going to happen with the sintered material already there.
Even is a key thing here. Uneven you can feel at less than .001". This is why early in the process you never want to come to a complete stop hard on the brakes when they are very hot. You will leave a nice imprint of pad material that you will feel until you sand it off the rotor.
Enough background.
With sintered pads and new rotors do about 10 stops at .8g (your butt will still be on the seat, barely) from 80 down to 25 mph. Let the brakes cool a bit between runs. When you get new pads get the exact pads you are replacing if possible, and you will only need about 5 runs to bed them in.
With organic pads you need to heat the shit out of them to get them sorted, so do the runs in rapid succession and finish with a couple of runs from 100 to 25. Afterwards, be absolutely certain to ride until they are cool before stopping. Don't be scared if they just stop working somewhere in the process (green fade). You will need to let them cool (while riding) before continuing. If you had sintered pads before you got the organics, sand the sintered material off the rotors with a good blaster that you have years of experience doing this with.
Product safety warning for litigious retards: If you try this in traffic be sure to die. Society has enough vegetables to take care of already.
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zeta xray
Expert Class
Posts: 416
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posted June 16, 2005 06:25 AM
My bike came delivered to me with a good coat of protectant lub on the rotors. The brakes were so bad that I almost coasted into traffic when I approached a parking lot exit. After I cleaned everything thoroughly, I had good brakes. Since the brake lever travel issue started last year, I f have done an informal survey by squeezing all of the ZX10 brakes I could get my hands on. I found that there is a large variation in lever travel and spongie feeling between new bikes. Is this a result of air in the brake system (what I suspect), brake hose expansion (not likely on new bikes), anti-squell washer issues (no), quality control issues with the m/c (not likely IMHO) or whatever? Since I did not have a chance to work on the bikes that I sampled, I am not sure what the issue really is. But is suspect air in the system.
Bottom line is that my brakes were really good stock. I agree with bovine on this. Even down to the slight loss of feel when the brakes got really hot. I thought his analysis was perfect. When I needed new pads for the front, instead of going OEM again, I bought a package deal of Galfer s/s lines, HH pads and Motul brake fluid. Even though I was happy with stock, the brakes are even better, now.
BTW, "running the bike pretty fast and squezing the brake lever very hard almost to the point of doing a stoppie. I do this 5 or 6 times", is not the correct way to bed in a new set of brake pads. Unless you want them to be glazed.
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It is good to be green.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted June 16, 2005 07:39 AM
ok I can appreciate all of your inputs on this......But I have never in 28 years of riding street bieks ever glased a set of pads seating them in like htis.....there is a first time for everything I guess.......will have to deal with it for now, just called all over the area and nobody has any brake pads fo rhte bike in stock, of any type, so i am stuck with them for now.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 16, 2005 08:09 AM
HDL... why not simoky order a set of EBC HH pads, clean the shit out of your rotors, and try again... (and I mean clean the shit out of them... assuming they are contaminated somehow)..
I just cant even relate to this thread.. I havve ridden several ZX10Rs and the brakes were outstanding on all of the,m... I PDI'd my own 10R right out of the box... not a prob at al with the brakes...
something just doesnt add up...
perhaps XL would care to weigh in on this? I'd like to see what his opinion is??
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted June 16, 2005 04:58 PM
I did clean the rotors fish, used brake cleaner and emery cloth and rub lightly with it along the grain of the rotor. The rotors are true, and as clean as i will ever be able to get them. I will score a set of EBC pads soon, but it wont be in time for my trip to the racetrack on saturday.Oh well........
I woudl very much like to here XL's input on this. I am assuming its just me and my being a perfectionist. Dont get me wrong, the brakes arent bad, espicially after I flushed theold fluid and bled them the last time. They are just not as good as i want them to be, or think they should be. For street riding they woudl be fine, But on the track fine isnt good enough, I wnat perfect. I finally have the bike handleing well, adn good tires that I like and trust, so the brakes are the last issue with it. Then after that everything else is gravy......
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
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Posts: 1060
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posted June 17, 2005 06:14 AM
I've been told by racers the oems are better than EBC. They said the EBC's fade when they get really hot.
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elrwfo
Novice Class
Posts: 57
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posted June 17, 2005 11:09 AM
So are the ss backs on the pads heat shields and or anti chatter shims?
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted June 17, 2005 12:59 PM
I think they are for looks, cant see as they do miuch of anything buyt take up space in there....I took them out, not getting any squeking or chatter out of the pads yet, will know more tomorrow, will be on Putnam all day.
Bovine I ahve hear people say that, I have had good luck with the EBC's so far even on the track, granted the track I was riding wasnt hard on brakes. I have also heard nothing but good things about the DP pads. Not sure what pads I am going to run yet on the bike. Prolly wont be stock though, but it will be a street pad. Not running a race pad on the bike, I would never get them hot enough to work right on the street, and tha tis where my 10 spends most of its time.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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swft
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Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted June 18, 2005 06:02 PM
I used to beat up the EBC pads pretty bad on my race bike. Turn 3 at Pacific Raceway is a hairpin at the bottom of a steep downhill, and I'd have to break the glaze on the pads between every race.
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted June 18, 2005 08:00 PM
The Brembo master cylinder, Gafler lines and Gafler HH pads have been installed. Full, indepth report to follow soon.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted June 18, 2005 11:02 PM
HDL....we have experienced magazine bikes that have come back with a so called mushy handle feel....No chattering or pulsation......As I check the brake rotors, I find an ever so slight warp...almost undetectable....Generally caused by a careless tire changer while breaking the bead and catching the rotor on the machine or merely by banging the rotor against somthing or dropping the wheel on the brake rotor.
Because your rotors are semi floaters....It makes it difficult to see the problem.
On occasion we have even found the carriers to have slight bends.
The easiest way to test this theory is ti find a friend with a ZX10 with Known good brakes and swap the front wheel and try it out.
Other than that......you are probably just a picky brake guy...lol.
Good luck and keep us posted
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted June 18, 2005 11:16 PM
does the same issue exist with full floaters?
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted June 18, 2005 11:42 PM
possibly......even harder to detect on a set of full floaters
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted June 19, 2005 12:39 AM
Speaking of floaters, I'll see you guys later...
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted June 19, 2005 03:09 AM
thanks XL, and everyone for the advice, I will check what you suggested. A buddy just bought a new ZX10 so i will swap wheels with him to test that.
I was at Putnam Park Yesterday with the bike, the brakes were ok after I changed the fluid a few days ago, but not great. After about 12 laps though I was ready to end my sessions. The brakes would fade to the point of having virtually none at that point. My lap times would get better and better up until about lap 8-9, then they would start to go away......by the end of the day I was only getting abut 6 laps before they woudl go away. So new brakes are in order....got to get rid of the fade......
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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