Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted February 27, 2005 08:53 PM
WIDESPREAD CRACK USE REPORTED AMONG ZX-10R ENGINEERS After the Federal Grand Jury read page 16-40 of the 2004 ZX-10R service manual, several drug related indictments have been handed down against against the chief design engineer and several of his assistants.
HEY KHI! STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE!
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted February 28, 2005 06:38 PM
Here the point fattcow... quoting page 16-40
Stick Coil (Ignition Coil with Spark Plug Cap) Removal
Remove:
Rear Seat (see Frame chapter)
Upper Seat Cover (see Frame chapter)
Front Seat (see Frame chapter)
Fuel Tank (see Fuel System (DFI) chapter)
Air Cleaner Housing (see Fuel System (DFI) chapter)
Right and Left Air Ducts (see Fuel System (DFI) chapter)
Disconnect the stick coil connectors
Pull the stick coils #2, #3 off the spark plugs
CAUTION
Do not pry the connector part of the coil while removing the coil.
___________________________________________________
Okay, that all seems pretty standard fare for getting to the plugs of just about any sportbike with a twin spar frame. No big deal. BUT WAIT! Those instructions apply ONLY to stick coils #2 and #3. It seems that there are "special" instructions for the remaining stick coils #4 and #1. They are as follows...
___________________________________________________
For removal of stick coil #4 as follows.
Remove:
Right Lower Fairing (see Frame chapter)
Right Middle Fairing (see Frame chapter) Right Lower Engine Bracket Bolts
Right Upper Engine Bracket Bolts
Pull out stick coil #4
For removal of stick coil #1 as follows.
Remove:
Left Lower Fairing (see Frame chapter)
Left Middle Fairing (see Frame chapter)
Headlight Harness Joint Connector Left Lower Engine Bracket Bolts
Left Upper Engine Bracket Bolts
Stick Coil Harness Joint Connector Bracket Bolt
Pull out stick coil #1
SO.... my dear friend, extremelean, please tell me exactly how common is it that to access the ALL of the spark plugs of your average sportbike... YOU HAVE TO REMOVE NOT ONE, BUT TWO ENGINE SUPPORT BRACKETS AND THEIR RELATED PLATES ATTCHED TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FRME SPARS? EH?
No confusion, just disappointment. I'd be interested to hear the design engineer's logic in why the those plates that block the access to stick coils #1 and #4 HAD TO BE designed that way for "structural rigidity" or what ever the bogus reason was. I SERIOUSLY doubt that if they had altered the shape ever so slightly so that it was not necessary to remove, or at least remove enough bolts to move the plate out of the way to access AND remove the coils, it would have any serious effect on the frame or it's brackets to be able to handle the stresses or loads.
Nothing to be missed, either. I do smile when I think of what the possible hourly rate charge would be for "simply" changing the plugs on a ZX-10R. I can only imagine what the expression on the customer's face will be when he is handed a bill for a couple of hundred dollars for a "simple" changing of the plugs. Yeap, it must be due to those pricey plugs, right?
Whatever. I call BULLSHIT on it. There is no VALID reason to make it that difficult to access the plugs. Especially on a twin spar frame design. It was easier to change the plugs or do testing on my ZX-12R.
BTW - even with this "quirk" (and I am sure that there will be others), this is by far and away my most favorite bike I have ever owned. After a little 250 mile ride last Saturday, it just makes me wish I was unemployed and independently wealthy so I could spend every day riding it. I've never had such a desire... no LUST to just get on a bike and RIDE!
Ahhhhh.... but all the same, those damn plates don't have a friggin' thing to do with that "enjoyment". It's still a stupid design. I don't need a labcoat and a bunch of letters following my name to realize that. I'm sure that it will be addressed in the '06 model.
swft - I won't be too pissy about the brake master cylinder when my tax return arrives. One Brembo radial master cylinder and the matching set of brake lines will solve all of that. It's just too bad that KHI saw fit to put it on their '05 6RR and the 636, yet "ignored" their "flagship" model.
Sometimes, with such flashes of genius like this "stick coil issue", I tend to believe that some of the design engineers at KHI used to be employed at Morton-Thiokol in the mid 80's..
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted February 28, 2005 06:42 PM
Edited By: redelk on 28 Feb 2005 18:46
BTW - I added the first four lines of instructions concering the tank remove. It is NOT on page 16-40, but it is a "given" that such steps are necessary to facilitate the removal of the airbox. Not that it is a big deal, seeing as how those are common steps involve in accessing the plugs on most brands and makes of most twin spar frame sportbikes.
Oh... and I'm equally sure that the '06 10R will also have the same front brake master cylinder found on all the other sportbikes, as well.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted February 28, 2005 07:54 PM
That's what you get with a frame over engine setup. If you think that's fucked up come work on some cars with me!. the first year the pontiac aztec came out, GM sent out a service note that blew my mind. To remove the A/C evaporator the windshield must be removed to access the HVAC bolts. Not only is it the ugliest car ever made but also engineered by blind people too!
BTW, If anyone here own's one on the list, all I have to say is sorry!!
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted February 28, 2005 08:04 PM
Don't even get into changing the plugs on a '77 Chevy Monza with a V8 and A/C. What a major pain!
I expected a such a "pain" with the 12R's "frame over engine" set up. Turned out to not be that bad. Other twin spar framed sportbikes I've worked on (ZX-6/7/9Rs, GSXRs and R1/R6s) don't seem to share this "design flaw".
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted March 01, 2005 06:23 AM
quote:BTW........it only takes me 45min. to change plugs,, start to finish.
It takes about 1/3 of that time on a R6.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
quote:Don't even get into changing the plugs on a '77 Chevy Monza with a V8 and A/C. What a major pain!
I expected a such a "pain" with the 12R's "frame over engine" set up. Turned out to not be that bad. Other twin spar framed sportbikes I've worked on (ZX-6/7/9Rs, GSXRs and R1/R6s) don't seem to share this "design flaw".
Well think about it - if a holesaw worked for the Vega, why can't it work for the 10?
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted March 01, 2005 09:56 AM
LOL swft. I believe that rider you mentioned was a 12R rider, was he not?
Extremelean, so does that mean that since the 12R plugs are easier to change than the 10R plugs, my 182 RWHP "stock" 12R made "smaller HP' too? DAMN! That must mean I got one of these "ringer" 10Rs!
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
quote:Don't even get into changing the plugs on a '77 Chevy Monza with a V8 and A/C. What a major pain!
I expected a such a "pain" with the 12R's "frame over engine" set up. Turned out to not be that bad. Other twin spar framed sportbikes I've worked on (ZX-6/7/9Rs, GSXRs and R1/R6s) don't seem to share this "design flaw".
Try doing a spark plug and wire change on a 93-97 4th Gen F-body. My mechanic friend charges $200 to do the job. I didn't understand why till I did it myself. What a pain! The driver side isn't too bad but the passenger side is a total nightmare. Plugs 2 and 4 are totally blind. You don't have much room to work with because of the exhaust manifold blocking much of the access and the frame getting in the way. Also you have to take out the alternator to gain some access to #2 plug. Took me 4 hours over two days to do the work as I was fumbling around for the first time with this project. I'm glad I saved some money and glad I don't have to do this that often. But next time if I'm in a time crunch and want to save some skin from my hands and arms, I may just pay to get it done.
posted March 05, 2005 08:25 AM
dont know what the prob is... I couldnt even get my big ham fists anywhere near the plugs on the 12R ... sounds like the 10R is a snap in comparison.
Sherm.... want a bike that has easy plugs to change? BUY A DUCATI.
Stop crying... waaaa waaaaaa ____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted March 07, 2005 12:16 AM
Fish, get back with me when you can speak from experience, not ignorance. A comment based merely by reading a page and looking at the pretty pictures (if you bothered to actually look it up in the service manual) hardly makes for a vaild opinion. If your "ham fists" had trouble with the 12R (I really had no problem with my 12R), you might as well let the dealer do your 10R.
extremelean - BTW, the labor rate is 1.3 hours. I guess that this is one of those rare cases where the rate is MORE than "actual". Yeah, right.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
posted March 07, 2005 02:12 PM
hahahahaha@ Sherm......dam he told you fish.....as for me I have no idea how long it takes to change the plugs, or anything else for tha tmatter, btu i can tell you how much it costs at my dealer.....:P
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted March 07, 2005 04:30 PM
BTW fishhead, its a tad early to be changin' plugs.
The reason I was removing (not replacing) the plugs was for the purposes of doing a compression check and a leak down test so I could have a post break-in baseline. The original plugs will go back in after testing is complete.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted March 07, 2005 04:39 PM
u know redelk, between your excessive maintenance and general bike care, and my nearly complete lack of either, we prolly average out to a couple pretty normal bike owners maybe u'd like to stop by my place ocne a month or so and do a once-over? my chain is rusted to shit, could really use some attention.
posted March 07, 2005 05:09 PM
jeez red.. yer awfull defensive... tell us more about your anger issues ____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted March 07, 2005 05:59 PM
frEEk, my dear friend... to see a rusted chain on a sportbike would REALLY send me over the edge. Just ask any of the guys on the race team.
Fish, to be perfectly honest, I have great difficulty in dealing with both ignorance of those who choose not to accept knowledge and stupidity of those that accept it but don't listen or act accordingly. Besides that, I'm okay.
Thanks for askin'.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted March 07, 2005 06:59 PM
in my defense, it's rusty cause i was running it thru the winter, salt-strewn roads & all, and no amount of chain lube seemed to help. i really gotta take it off and give it a real cleaning soon tho, like with a wire brush & gasoline. and yes, it's a good bet that my 12r would send you over the edge at the best of times. just wait till i get the knobbies mounted and hit the local dirt track
All times are America/Va [ This thread is 2 pages long: 12Next» ]
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted February 27, 2005 08:53 PM
posted February 28, 2005 09:29 AM
Edited By: 
