canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted December 24, 2004 10:06 AM
If any fastener comes loose after being installed with thread locker (or a self locking nut) and is correctly torqued, then there are only two possible reasons:
1) incorrect torque spec from the factory.....it happens all the time. Either too tight (causing stretching beyond the elastic capablities of the fastener) or too loose.
2) a metallurgical issue.....either in the bolt itself (stretching due to incorrect or poor material choice), the nut (if applicable), or the parent material the fastener is threaded into (if applicable)
The 10R is not a freaking Harley...the engine does not vibrate barely at all...let alone excessively enough to rattle shit loose.
If the fastener coming loose is the source of the problem, and a properly torqued, secured fastener cannot come loose, then it is either an issue for Kawasaki to deal with, or the dealer to absorb due to lack of attention during service.
Why is that people assume that anything that goes wrong with someone else's bike is abuse, and yet if the same thing ever happens to them, they were riding at 15km/h deliering toys to orphans?
The warranty is there to protect the consumer. It is up to the warranty company to look at and determine if a claim is legitimate or not. The onus is on the warranty company to determine abuse....not the customer to disclose (never, ever admit anything incriminating). I have personally witnessed many claims go through that we all knew were abuse, but they went through in the name of customer satisfaction and safety. What is one frame (engine, trans, etc) compared to the bad press from not doing it??? In addition, what happens if the warranty company refuses to fix the problem, and an accident is caused by the damage? You can guarantee that media will get ahold of that one and turn it into a PR nightmare.
People can take the moral high road and say whatever they want about the "abuse" of the system by consumers (think about the thread about the collapsed gas tank), and say that false warranty claims drive up the cost of bikes, but there is more internal abuse of the warranty systems than anyone outside of the system is aware (and is far greater than the false or bogus claims). Stuff gets pushed through all the time to satisfy "special" customers. You can guarantee that if the cracked frame bike was owned by a dealership's owners' buddy it would have been fixed instantly. Yet because the owner is a regular dude, he'll have to fight like crazy to get it fixed...and get called a wacko by our community all the while. Here is another huge waste of warranty dollars: misdiagnosis or no diagnsosis of a failure resulting in random parts replacement, all due to lack of training or service literature. That is definitely the fault of the company....and costs the warranty company huge dollars (while under warranty), and the consumer. (after the warrranty expires), but yet that isn't made into a big deal.....because it is too hard to fix.
The one year warrantee is not an absolute....especially when the factory determines there is a problem. There may be an unwritten "extended warranty" that exists to fix these very problems. I have seen Honda Civics that were 10 years old and had a zillion miles on them getting new gas tanks because they were rusting out and Honda felt a level of responsiblity. No one looked at these consumers and their 10 year old cars and said "you''ve been driving this car, haven't you???"....and yet because this topic is about motorcyles, the assumption is that anyone having a problem is abusing the bike.
What about my leaky stator wiring on my 12R's??? If I never started my bikes, they would never leak.....so it must be abuse to make them leak, right? If I never revved the bikes up....they might never leak either, so that is option as well. These statements seem preposterous now, but a couple of years ago, no one knew what was happening, and there were all sorts of people telling the others that they were crazy, because these things "don't happen" or that they abused the bike to "Make" it leak ...now we know that there is a legitimate problem. What will happen when this frame crack issue turns out the same way???
The bottom line: for any warranty concern, it is up to the dealership (as agent for the warranty company) to determine the legitimacy of the claim. It is not up to the consumer to assume that something is not covered under warranty.....even if it was abuse that caused the issue (especially because "abuse" is such a nebulous word. There are owners out there who run run full spectrum from anal bastard (that thinks everything is abuse) to I-don't-give-a-fuck (who believes nothing is abuse). My opinion: if Kawasaki builds a bike that can crack the frame if it is wheelied then they should not have made it with enough power to wheelie!!!.....if that is the root cause of the failure). The consumer NEVER knows if there is a recall (a bad batch of frames perhaps.....or how about front wheels???) or service bulletin that discusses the very same symptoms (even under similar failure circumstances) and the bike can be repaired under warranty without issue. In addition, customers complaining about weird problems is the first step to realizing there is a pattern of failures and then determining the corporate strategy to address the concern......so it could be argued that the consumer is helping the corporation by bringing in these odd concerns.
  
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Eddyo
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted December 24, 2004 05:49 PM
Torque it...
If you want to trust some 16 year old pimple faced kid to torgue your bike down then live (or die) by his decision or lack of expertise to not torque as needed. The owner has the responibility to turn off the key when he/she isn't using the bike. The owner has the responibility to keep bolts, nuts, etc. tight!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted December 25, 2004 10:04 AM
Eddyo: I think you missed one point entirely. If the fastener was tightened corrrectly, why does it come loose????? The motor mount bolts on my 12R's never come loose......why do they on the 10R???? These are fucking Japanese motorcycles, not Harleys.......things are not supposed to rattle loose!!!
There are many owners out there that are totally hands off....and it's a good thing. These people have no mechanical skill and are just as likely to cause damage by paying mechanical attention to the bike. All they know how to do (barely) is put in gas and more or less how to use the key. They do rely on the dealership to perform all services. Sure, the responsiblity is ultimately the owner's, but when the dealership is contracted to perform the service......and they don't do it, or do it incorrectly, they bear the responsiblity. Also if the dealership employs the "pimply faced kid" who is not competent (assuming that he is incompetent) and he doesn't do the job correctly (due to lack of training, motivation or skill), the dealership is even more responsible......if you pay for a service, and don't get that service, it is fraud....it's very simple.
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sp500
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted December 25, 2004 02:39 PM
no loose nuts on this bike, except for me.
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Ozzy
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted December 26, 2004 07:32 AM
does it state in the owners manual to NOT wheelie the bike?
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted December 26, 2004 08:34 AM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 26 Dec 2004 09:48
I think that there may be problems, Ozzy, with how people "nowadays" define a wheelie... We all know that popping the odd wheelie down the street is different than stunting with your bike "Starrboyz" style... nevertheless I'd be interested in hearing from ANY actual ZX10R owner who's had their frame crack rather than 3rd and 5th hand reports from trolls from other sites.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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burgerking
Expert Class
Posts: 193
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posted January 03, 2005 01:28 PM
Edited By: burgerking on 3 Jan 2005 13:29
Funny thing: on a german CBR1000RR forum they all went wild over this story couldn't stop laughing and saying kawa build quality is crap. One even concluded there 15 reports of cracked 10R's.
Now one of them started a thread because one of his mates had an engine failure on a CBR1000RR and suddenly they all went quiet. So much for unbiased posting 
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sp500
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted January 03, 2005 02:40 PM
My 10's been on crack since i had it.
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