FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 16, 2004 01:53 PM
Well the brake system has been fitted but a slight problem the lever comes back and hits the throttle housing very little resistance despite a full vacuum bleed on the system ?
Suspect a faulty master cylinder ? and another one is on the way with a selection of different ration levers to see if this could be part of the problem.
Lever selection allows you to customise the exact feel to suit the rider and is varied by the pivot point that alters the ratio as well as the resistance at the lever during use.
So still not riding the 10 yet but just came back from a two day stint on my Aprilia across the mountains what a hoot! ( that bike fair rocks ). Problem should be fixed if parts are in for this weekend so I can test ride.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
    
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wwwrxxx
Novice Class
Posts: 80
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posted December 16, 2004 05:27 PM
I've insterted a set of DP pads. DPR942
Holy shit. What a difference. 1 finger braking at Phillip Island on the weekend with ease.
The stockers needed a whole hand to pull up.
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zx9rmal
Novice Class
Posts: 75
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posted December 17, 2004 09:23 AM
Umm, I stand corrected. Only ONE of the lines is a hard line. The other is rubber.
I installed a set of Galfers, and, combined with the SBS pads and a really good bleed and re-bleed, UNBELIEVABLE!
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Mal Glanz
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
'12 ZX-14R
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top shelf
Novice Class
Posts: 99
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posted December 17, 2004 10:18 AM
FP-I am going to echo the thoughts of BD, particularly now that you are seeing the results of using the incorrect M/C. The 16mm m/c doesn't move enough volume to work properly on these calipers. The proper m/c for these particular calipers is either the 19x16 or 19x18 depending on the feel you are after. As BD said earlier in your thread the 16 mm m/c is for single caliper applications and will not work on a dual caliper applications. You will never get that m/c to work on your 10r. Not trying to flame just being realistic
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted December 18, 2004 03:42 AM
I just cant believe tha tyou all are spending that much on lines and fluid and NOT changing the stock pads out........buy a set of EBC HH+ pads or a set of Dunlapads, and that will help alot, or try going throuhg the corners faster and not slowing down so much.......lol
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 18, 2004 03:45 PM
Looks like I am up Shit Creek on this one so far. Good advice from all I have not seen what the race boys have been upto over the weekend so don't know what has progressed on the brake front. With regards to different brake pads, tried that no big difference on the stock setup.
TS, I read again BD's post and will look at this as it could be the problem except as I stated earlier this same setup has been used on the Suzuki k4 race machine with excellent results using the same spec calipers so stuffed if I know.
HDL it is obviously up to personal taste how you like your brakes, I am a late hard braker and most passing manouvers happen for me like this. I like to trail the rear wheel cut up the inside turn late then on the gas and gone it really upsets the opposition when they see you sail past them up the inside at a great rate of knots and then you are gone while they are still setting up for the corner.
I have always had bikes with exceptional brake setups as it suits my riding style my ZX9R track bike has lines and rotors but stock pads this works best with the 6 spot calipers. It just so happens that the Aprilia came standard with its Brembo setup so no change needed.
A work in progress we are all different if we weren't we would all be riding a Honda..........!
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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zx9rmal
Novice Class
Posts: 75
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posted December 19, 2004 06:16 PM
Have you tried SBS sintered race pads? They made a HUGE difference on my bike over the stock setup.
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Mal Glanz
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
'12 ZX-14R
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FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 19, 2004 06:45 PM
ZX9, yeah I have tried the sintered pads, it's not the pads and in short bursts the stock system is fine but prolonged hard use the lever goes. One other thing to consider Hard Metal pads grind your disc's so it is cheaper to replace pads in softer compounds than disc's, as a general rule a softer pad will give you more feel and initial bite on application but it depends on your brake setup.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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wwwrxxx
Novice Class
Posts: 80
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posted December 19, 2004 08:54 PM
FP10R, when do you want to meet up for a ride?
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zeta xray
Expert Class
Posts: 416
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posted December 20, 2004 04:11 PM
Some info the chew on. I just checked my ZX10 and it has a 14 mm master cylinder, stock. I am not sure why the 16 mm Brembo would not move enough fluid to work with dual discs, since it should move more fluid than the stock 14 mm m/c. The way I understand it, a larger diameter m/c moves more fluid but requires more effort to generate the same line pressure. Given that the leverage (pivot distance) is the same. BTW the Suzuki G1K calipers are not the same as the ZX10. Similar, but they are different castings. I have no idea what the piston diameters of each is. And that would make a critical difference also. My friend with a Gixxer has had more problems with brake fade than I have with my ZX10, at the track. We have similar riding styles. IMHO the stock pads seem like a "performance" brake pad in that they have increased braking capability when warmed up. At the track, I thought they became grabby when they got hot. The Galfer pads seem to have a more consistant feel at the track. I have never had the lever come to the bar at the track, either with stock brake lines and pads or with Galfer lines and pads. I would characterize my riding style as being too hard on the brakes. I also use my rear brake. And finally, I have NEVER been happy with the result when I have bled my brakes using a vacume device.
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted December 20, 2004 04:19 PM
Zeta how did you check it??
BD
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zeta xray
Expert Class
Posts: 416
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posted December 20, 2004 05:08 PM
Almost all m/c's have it stamped or cast into the body somewhere. It is on the side of the housing.
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted December 20, 2004 05:20 PM
Well it seems as though i've made an error in my previous post regarding the 10r OEM MC piston size being of the 16mm variety (actually 14mm) and so i must apologize to FP 10R and any others that posted within the thread reading my bad info.
BD
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FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 21, 2004 12:41 PM
Gentlemen, once again good information BD apology excepted no problems. I dropped into the dealer yesterday and all is well, new master fitted now a 16mm x 19mm item different ratio lever and all bled up.
Haven't ridden it yet but he says on the test ride no problems but a softer lever feel so this could take some getting use to and will no doubt change once the pads are bedded in. I also saw the new 636 05 models yesterday and what a trick master they have on them ( nissin )with definately larger rotors also, you can bet this will find its way onto the 06 10R for sure.
Redelk's posting regarding no change on the 05 model master! It works like this, Kawasaki go to a brake company and develop a brake system with a supplier and that supplier is given a guaranteed minimum supply contract to cover their R&D costs based on a number of units supplied and this usually equates to a 2 year cycle.
The ZX6 is a completely new model it has gone through its 2 year cycle so the brake system was up for review and changed to keep a head. As much as we may not like it Kawasaki is a business and needs to make money as well as its suppliers or the cost of the bikes rises.
European motorcycle manufacturers have a different outlook and think nothing of making changes mid model my Aprilia is a perfect example but look at the cost, more than twice the price!
Hopefully over christmas I will get the chance to ride and test the brakes with a full report and photos to follow.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted December 21, 2004 12:47 PM
So perhaps the 05 636 unit may be the "E" ticket for some! Did you happen to see/hear what piston size it was?
BD
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FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 21, 2004 01:08 PM
No details yet I will see what I can find out, have bagged a test ride as soon as the bike is prepped and will see what the bugger goes like!
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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magzx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 252
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posted December 21, 2004 09:58 PM
Brakes
I installed Galfer SS lines up front and Ferodo sintergrip HH pads. I also installed the stock metal clip-on "spacers". I bled the brake calipers and master cylinder with a mityvac and did the Vince Hill trick with the zip tie overnight. My brakes are now a lot better than stock and the lever is a lot firmer. The lever is not as firm as the Brembo Upgrade kit (Brembo master cylinder & calipers) I had on the ZX-12R, but the braking is just as good and requires a little less force than with the Brembo's.
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wwwrxxx
Novice Class
Posts: 80
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posted December 23, 2004 05:27 PM
FP10R
Sure you don't want to come through the hills with us? I won't mind if you pass me into a corner and disappear around it while I'm still setting up.
My friends have all 04 bikes. We've got the whole range covered.
Let me know, we're going to get out a bit over the next couple of weeks.
Cheers.
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FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 23, 2004 06:08 PM
WWW, obviously you ddn't get my PM last week will send you another one with phone ect.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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FP 10R
Expert Class
Fast Learner
Posts: 212
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posted December 26, 2004 05:34 PM
Brake System Report, picked the bike up on friday all with the new brake system on it comprising Brembo Forged Alloy 16x19 master cylinder, Castrol SRF fluid, Goodridge braided lines, Braking wave rotors fully floating and Fren Gold pads.
I have also fitted a different ration lever not sure of the spec but fully adjustable for reach and position. First impression is the lever is harder and the progression is very linear with brake force very progressive and no surprises quite different ot the stock system in feel.
After bedding in the pads and discs tried some high speed stops to gauge the difference, middle finger everytime never squashed the other fingers at any time no sign of fade at all.
I need to get more time in on the bike to be confident on the late braking compared to stock or my Aprilia, on fast transitions you can feel the weight difference of the discs to stock and they make a Whirring sound when applied like Brembo's.
I found out something else 10R's are speed limited to 299kmh mine hit the stop at this and backed off ? will need to fix that problem haven't noticed it before on the track and well before max revs in top just like hitting a brick wall.
Just finished downloading the camera so I will take some shots and post with the specs on all the bits if anyone else is interested in going the same route.
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"Life is not a rehearsal so make the most of it" Carefully
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sp500
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted December 27, 2004 12:18 AM
299 not true speed though, speedohealer it mate.
the braking package youve got now sounds awesome.
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zeta xray
Expert Class
Posts: 416
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posted December 30, 2004 09:55 PM
quote:
So perhaps the 05 636 unit may be the "E" ticket for some! Did you happen to see/hear what piston size it was?
BD
Well my local friendly K dealer got the new '05 ZX6Rs in today and I crawled all over the bike trying to find a number on the M/C. Finally found it. 3/4?????????? That is all I could find. If they are talking 3/4", that should be 18mm. The '05 Yamaha R6 is a 16mm Brembo M/C. On both, the banjo bolt for the brake hoses comes straight down. It might require different brake lines than what works with the stock M/C. Both M/C's have bleeders on the master cyl.
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big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted December 31, 2004 12:21 AM
Good find Zeta. perhaps someone has access to a parts fich or the like....hint, hint anyone!!
BD
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CanyonCarver
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted December 31, 2004 06:21 AM
quote:
Good find Zeta. perhaps someone has access to a parts fich or the like....hint, hint anyone!!
BD
Uhhhh, we all do at the buykawasaki.com website. I took the initiative to look it up for you BD (too busy postwhoring?) :lol
Complete '05 636 front brake master cylinder assy from Big K is part number 43015-0032. That includes the reservoir, too. Can't get you a price yet, as Ron Ayers doesn't have it in their database yet.
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sp500
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted December 31, 2004 06:37 AM
hahaha, good one bd
looks like it was easy work
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