SMBowen
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted November 03, 2004 02:46 PM
 Edited By: SMBowen on 4 Nov 2004 14:20
MOD gone seriously FUBAR!!!!!!
I did three mods last weekend:
TRE
Remove CA from my bike
Block Off Plates
I have eliminating the TRE as the problem, however somewhere along the other two mods I seriously F**KED UP!!!!!!! I rode the bike around town after I did it, I was happy because no more backfiring. Today I rode 60miles in the morning and then 60 at night and somewhere in the 60 at night my tank caved in. The whole top is sunk in and the bottom/sides are raised up off the frame.
If you have any questions about what I might have done ask and I will tell if I did it or not, because I either did an extra step or missed one. Oh yeah and it was serious suction when trying to open the gas lid.
Well suck for me. Yes I plugged both the vents that went to the charcoal canister. I am almost positive I read that somewhere, not to mention I had gas dripping from them while it was just sitting off the bike and that reassured me to plug them....damn I'm an idiot.
http://www.smbowen.com/temp/IMG_2272.JPG
http://www.smbowen.com/temp/IMG_2273.JPG
Does anybody have a clue on which hole was incorrectly plugged? I put a cap on the end of the red and blue nipples. (yes! I said nipples! ) Do you think I could put the CA back on and then claim warranty! haha, just kidding. Anybody got a clue on a non CA tank cost? Or maybe a carbon fiber tank?
I really wanted to bring this up to let everyone know that removing the communist restrictions on your bike may need a little longer look, or I just really f'd it up.
THANKS!!!!!
sm
PS - Anybody want to buy a blue tank slighty raised off the frame and will soon have a suction mark on top?
    
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted November 03, 2004 03:40 PM
Good god...........  Did you hook the vent hose up to something pulling vacume? SM........I've never seen anything like that in my life.........
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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SMBowen
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted November 03, 2004 03:42 PM
cool huh!?
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted November 03, 2004 03:47 PM
After thinking about this for a second, I can only assume that after blocking off the vents........while riding around.....the fuel level drops and there is no venting of the tank so it creates a vaccume and the lower it got the more negative pressure was created until it over powered your tank my friend. Like taking an empty milk jug and sucking on it till the sides start to colapse.
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted November 03, 2004 03:48 PM
That was a long damn sentence wasn't it?
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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blubyu
Expert Class
Posts: 209
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posted November 03, 2004 04:11 PM
Tank Cave In
What It sounds like is that you sealed your gas tank with no vents while the weather was warm. As the fuel level dropped, along with the temperature. The pressure in the tank drop also. Have you ever brought a bottle of water out of the car after it has been sitting in the sun and stuck it in the refrigerator? The bottle basically caves in on itself. Temp dropped and pressure dropped!
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Run whatcha brung
Tow whatcha blow
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SMBowen
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted November 03, 2004 05:19 PM
I am totally with you guys on "how" it happened. I completely understand the pressure and vacuum concept. What I am trying to figure out is which nipple should I have covered? Should i have covered a nipple at all? Drilled a hole on top of the tank? (ok kidding about the last one)
I know other people have said they took the CA off of their bike, what did they do? Are they endangering their tank also?
sm
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted November 03, 2004 05:38 PM
Dunno what exactly caused that but I can gaurantee ya that a stunna will love ta buy that tank from ya.
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o
Expert Class
Posts: 171
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posted November 03, 2004 06:06 PM
Next time put a NO FAT CHICKS sticker on your tank........LOL
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PBO ZX10R
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 03, 2004 07:18 PM
Edited By: extremelean on 3 Nov 2004 20:24
First off...an FYI... the emissions control on your bike does NOT restrict any performance, the seperator merely returns liquid fuel back to the tank and vaporized fuel to the charcoal canister which is in turn breathed in via your airbox and burned in the engine.
Fuel injected bikes with ram air work so well these days that you would hardly notice any kind of performance curve.....The only time you might notice a running condition of some sort is if you severely over filled your tank, even that would not be too bad.
The tank breaths through the fuel cap, there is a small pipe that protrudes from the bottom of your cap (you can see it when the cap is open), that pipe slides into a rubber donut (a seal of sorts) when you close the cap, this rubber donut is held in place by the outer ring of your fuel cap (the part bolted to your tank).....this all breathes through the blue labeled pipe for your emissions control.
SOOO.....what you have efectively done by blocking both pipes is seal your tank from breathing....thus the emenint(spelling) collapse as your fuel pump becomes a vacuum cleaner.
good luck...and sorry bout your prob.
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DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted November 03, 2004 08:13 PM
You mean you can't get this covered by warranty????
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
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kz2zx
Pro
Nobody in Particular
Posts: 1166
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posted November 03, 2004 08:17 PM
Can I watch him try?
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SMBowen
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted November 03, 2004 10:01 PM
quote:
First off...an FYI... the emissions control on your bike does NOT restrict any performance, the seperator merely returns liquid fuel back to the tank and vaporized fuel to the charcoal canister which is in turn breathed in via your airbox and burned in the engine.
Fuel injected bikes with ram air work so well these days that you would hardly notice any kind of performance curve.....The only time you might notice a running condition of some sort is if you severely over filled your tank, even that would not be too bad.
The tank breaths through the fuel cap, there is a small pipe that protrudes from the bottom of your cap (you can see it when the cap is open), that pipe slides into a rubber donut (a seal of sorts) when you close the cap, this rubber donut is held in place by the outer ring of your fuel cap (the part bolted to your tank).....this all breathes through the blue labeled pipe for your emissions control.
SOOO.....what you have efectively done by blocking both pipes is seal your tank from breathing....thus the emenint(spelling) collapse as your fuel pump becomes a vacuum cleaner.
good luck...and sorry bout your prob.
Thanks for helping me narrow it to the blue side....if my tank vents out the cap, why didn't it vent? Will there be any issues if I order a 49state tank? I am sure my gas cap will fit, but will it provide the venting I need? Or will I have to buy a 49 state gas cap?
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted November 04, 2004 02:29 AM
dude that sucks...sorry to hear about that...Have ya priced a tank yet????
Ron Ayres has them for the 49 state bike for get this....$735.00+ S&H.....good luck
might be cheaper to take the tank to a body shop and have them fix it
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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iculukn
Expert Class
Posts: 200
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posted November 04, 2004 04:36 AM
I'm in late on this one. I've Just Never seen anything like THIS nor heard of such! I do believe our ZX10R engines posses enough intake suction to collapse a milk jug. But I Can Not Fantom this one! I have placed my hand over the carburetor of a few big block engines in my day and to say the least, I'm typing with both hands to this day. I don't understand how a 1000 sportbike can create this kind of suction, seems more like it'd just kill the engine. Someone help me understand this,
-lukn
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A "99.99% open mind", is still closed!
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kz2zx
Pro
Nobody in Particular
Posts: 1166
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posted November 04, 2004 04:49 AM
Well, there are two possible mechanisms - one the tank was closed/sealed while warm, then cooling lowered the pressure in the tank, as was suggested before.
The other is that the fuel pump can develop many PSI.
Either way, it's stunning.
And, Bowen, truly, I feel for you. I've been in similar situations before, and it's no fun when there is no one else to blame. If I see a tank on eBay or somewhere, I'll ping you.
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted November 04, 2004 05:17 AM
Quote:
"if my tank vents out the cap, why didn't it vent?"
Thats a pretty good question..........
Maybe the vent can't keep up with the fuel pump?
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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crispin
Expert Class
Posts: 288
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posted November 04, 2004 07:00 AM
I would put everything back together and warrenty that bitch.
The vent should have worked better.
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04 ZX10-R Blue
slightly mod'd...
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted November 04, 2004 09:17 AM
I don't think there is a gas cap vent on the California models. I'm not for sure but I think the Cali models AND cars have to vent to a charcoal canister. The 49 stater's vent to the atmosphere. ( via the cap ) This would explain why the pump "imploded" the tank with the vent tit's blocked off. SM must have a California model.
extremelean??????? Input please my man.......... 
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted November 04, 2004 09:20 AM
Looked at your post again extreme..........got it now.....
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I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 04, 2004 10:12 AM
Go back and read where it says "(a seal of sorts)"....once the cap is closed the tank CANNOT breath when you plug the blue vent tube.
READ BETWEEN THE LINES, if you will....and yes the cap works on both 49 state and California models.
quote:
quote:
First off...an FYI... the emissions control on your bike does NOT restrict any performance, the seperator merely returns liquid fuel back to the tank and vaporized fuel to the charcoal canister which is in turn breathed in via your airbox and burned in the engine.
Fuel injected bikes with ram air work so well these days that you would hardly notice any kind of performance curve.....The only time you might notice a running condition of some sort is if you severely over filled your tank, even that would not be too bad.
The tank breaths through the fuel cap, there is a small pipe that protrudes from the bottom of your cap (you can see it when the cap is open), that pipe slides into a rubber donut (a seal of sorts) when you close the cap, this rubber donut is held in place by the outer ring of your fuel cap (the part bolted to your tank).....this all breathes through the blue labeled pipe for your emissions control.
SOOO.....what you have efectively done by blocking both pipes is seal your tank from breathing....thus the emenint(spelling) collapse as your fuel pump becomes a vacuum cleaner.
good luck...and sorry bout your prob.
Thanks for helping me narrow it to the blue side....if my tank vents out the cap, why didn't it vent? Will there be any issues if I order a 49state tank? I am sure my gas cap will fit, but will it provide the venting I need? Or will I have to buy a 49 state gas cap?
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted November 04, 2004 10:14 AM
quote:
I would put everything back together and warrenty that bitch.
The vent should have worked better.
The only way the vent works is if someone didnt plug it up.
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papawheelie
Expert Class
Posts: 381
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posted November 04, 2004 12:40 PM
That aint nuttin' but a stunt tank!!! Stunt the bike!!!!
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21896
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posted November 04, 2004 01:02 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 4 Nov 2004 13:03
quote:
First, I know this is going to get moved to performance and tech but I wanted to get as many people to see it ASAP, so sorry.
First off... wow... crazy story!
second.... listen to extremelean
third.... tell me where "performance and tech" is ... we dont have dem dare performance 'n tech section.... ???? confused...???
fourth.... since KMC reads this site your chances of "faking it" and filing a warranty claim on this one are slim to none 
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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SMBowen
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted November 04, 2004 02:24 PM
Sorry about the performance and tech thing, I typed it up once and then posted it on the two forums I frequent (that way I could get the most info). Don't worry I am not one to screw the system I will take advantage of what is available but not fraudently. Too many people screw the system and because that we all (the honest people) have to pay more for it.
If I buy a 49 state tank from KMC and swap out my gas cap, plug it all back in will it work fine? Or is there something I need to do/buy?
sm
quote:
quote:
First, I know this is going to get moved to performance and tech but I wanted to get as many people to see it ASAP, so sorry.
First off... wow... crazy story!
second.... listen to extremelean
third.... tell me where "performance and tech" is ... we dont have dem dare performance 'n tech section.... ???? confused...???
fourth.... since KMC reads this site your chances of "faking it" and filing a warranty claim on this one are slim to none
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