worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 02, 2004 12:20 AM
quote:
So everyone is against badboy, right?
Well, here're some facts:
1) I don't say Muzzy copied Moko's frame slider idea but they look very similar and Moko did them some months before Muzzy, so badboy at leaset may make his point without everyone flaming him.
...just because someone came out with their product first doesn't factually prove that they were copied, only that they came out first...
quote:
2) Good frame sliders are supposed to protect side plastics as well in case of lowside.
...any frame slider would have to have awfully long sliders to keep body plastics from making contact with the tarmac...if moko or muzzys were three or four times as long, would you install it on you bike?...
...so you've stated two of your opinions about sliders and badboy...not facts, right?...the only things that are factual are that you stated two opinions...
quote:
All this talks about FRAME sliders protecting frame is BS to me!
Just my opinion.
...key words: FRAME sliders...but you're right about this being your opinion...hey, I'm just making an observation in my humble opinion 
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
  
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ronis
Expert Class
One Life... Live It!!!
Posts: 142
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posted October 02, 2004 03:29 AM
WH,
pls read carefully my previous post again.
1) MOKO were on the market before Muzzy. That's the fact not my opinion.
There's clearly stated that I don't say Muzzy copied anything although they have very similar construction.
3) About bodywork protection: I said good frame sliders not Muzzy or Moko. That's why I installed R&G Racing frame sliders. They care about bodywork as well!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted October 02, 2004 09:28 AM
the R&G sliders appear to attach the to engine, not the frame. is that correct? i always understood this to be a bad thing as a fall can crack an engine. that could be BS for all i know tho.
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
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posted October 02, 2004 11:47 AM
Lookin in the pics, leads me to ask...do you want to sell your brake and clutch levers?
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 02, 2004 04:04 PM
quote:
WH,
pls read carefully my previous post again.
1) MOKO were on the market before Muzzy. That's the fact not my opinion.
There's clearly stated that I don't say Muzzy copied anything although they have very similar construction.
3) About bodywork protection: I said good frame sliders not Muzzy or Moko. That's why I installed R&G Racing frame sliders. They care about bodywork as well!
...uh...ok...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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ronis
Expert Class
One Life... Live It!!!
Posts: 142
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posted October 03, 2004 02:09 AM
quote:
the R&G sliders appear to attach the to engine, not the frame. is that correct? i always understood this to be a bad thing as a fall can crack an engine. that could be BS for all i know tho.
I'm afraid you're wrong. R&G sliders DO NOT attach to engine...
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted October 03, 2004 01:22 PM
any idea where they do attach to? i was judging by the pics and they seemed rather far forward of the frame.
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12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
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posted October 03, 2004 02:50 PM
The first time I see a set of frame sliders save the plastics, I'm buying them. That would have saved me a ton of cash.
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
 
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ronis
Expert Class
One Life... Live It!!!
Posts: 142
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posted October 03, 2004 11:22 PM
quote:
any idea where they do attach to? i was judging by the pics and they seemed rather far forward of the frame.
Engine mounting points of frame (see photo on page 8-7 of service manual), so the engine itself stays safe.
I'm not going to advertise R&G, everyone chooses his own way.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted October 04, 2004 07:50 AM
Lets keep it real. Sliders that bolt to a bracket are weak.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted October 04, 2004 10:53 AM
...I think sliders that are mounted to brackets have some advantage of absorbing and dissapating the energy of a slide/minor crash in a progressive manner while protecting the frame as opposed to a slider solidly mounted to the frame and having the slide/crash energy transmitted directly from the slider into the frame and perhaps damaging the frame spar(s)...is this correct thinking?
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted October 04, 2004 04:18 PM
No. The slider material does the work. The mounting point must be as solid as possible or it will shear right off. You need a torque wrench and the will to use it.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted October 05, 2004 09:13 AM
i kinda wish that sliders were equipped with springs or crushable material so absorb some of the impact. i'v seen them with springs on stunter bikes. come to think of it, that funky mount on the muzzys look like they could absorb SOME impact if the large mounting end would slide down the tube some.
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ZX10 Guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted October 05, 2004 09:00 PM
Just to update you guys, I talked with Rob Muzzy about my slider issue. We both agree that there might be something going on that needs to be addressed. To help him out, I'm sending back my dinged up slider and associated parts for their examination. Rob was gracious enough to pick up the tab for the return shipment. I have to box up the parts and send them out. He also took an extra step and picked up the tab on the replacment parts for the damaged ones being shipped out to me. Per our conversation, he is thinking about a couple of immediate fixes that could get existing sliders retrofitted. One idea is to use a longer bolt with a nut as the anchor behind the bracket. The other...I think was to use a thicker bracket. So there you have it. Rob said he'll be in touch with me once he gets my shipped back parts. I'll keep you all updated as to the findings if anyone from Muzzy's doesn't do this before I do.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted October 06, 2004 07:03 AM
The nut behind the bracket is going to work for you. Nice to know he cares. 
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drowland
Zone Head
Posts: 733
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posted October 06, 2004 03:01 PM
You want to sell your odometer? is it still good?????
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ZX10 Guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted October 06, 2004 03:57 PM
Man....circling the body before it's cold. Well I'm in the process of having the insurance company see what they're going to do with it. I do have a confirmed bend in the frame at least in the steering neck. Can't see anything visually but it's definitely off. Had the one bent fork straightened and replaced the lower triple clamp. Even with all straight pieces, the wheel is definitely pushed back where it's pretty close to the lower fairings. So if the insurance company does total the bike, then I'll entertain offers for a buy back. I also purchased a bunch of fairing pieces that I had on the bike to replace all the rashed up ones. The pieces are brand new from Kawi. I have receipts and original packing to prove the parts origin. The parts have only been on the bike once. The fairing pieces I have are the center fairing/windscreen, upper left, middle left, and the tail in black. I also have a left mirror which is also bought new from Kawi. So depending on what the insurance does to my bike these items will probably be up for sale.
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badboy
Novice Class
Posts: 87
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posted October 06, 2004 10:39 PM
ZX10 Guy, Brother, DO NOT send your parts back to Muzzy!
He has admitted he is selling parts that are NOT tested for the purpose they were designed for!
You could be in for a lot of money. You give away those sliders and you can kiss any litigation goodbye.
Think about it carefully and talk to someone before you send those back.
I don't think you knew you would be the TEST GUY for Muzzy sliders.
Remmember:
" We designed these with best intent however you must understand we dont do crash testing. Information from you will help us improve the product."
You wrecked your bike so Muzzy can improve his product!
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badboy
Novice Class
Posts: 87
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posted October 06, 2004 10:40 PM
I saved a copy of this page for you just in case.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted October 07, 2004 06:07 AM
not sure what you could litigate for something like this, if anything... the "frame sliders" are meant to minimize damage during a slide... Obviously the circumstances of this crash are not a "slide" ... on top of that you'd have to prove that the sliders didn't minimize the damage to the bike...
all of it seems like a giant waste of time to me IMHO ....
I vote for send the things back and see if they can be improved.
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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scott_in_fl
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted October 07, 2004 07:41 AM
That's a tough case, imo. BTW, I happen to have a little background in this area
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fattkaw
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted October 07, 2004 12:04 PM
GET A LIFE!!
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fattkaw
Expert Class
Posts: 277
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posted October 07, 2004 12:09 PM
muzzys only claim is that it protects the frame. where would any lawsuit be justified?? I don't see a scratch on the frame!!
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ZX10 Guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted October 07, 2004 05:40 PM
I can see where some of you may say that I have a chance to litigate. But I don't think this is gross negligence. To me it's all about intent and follow through. Part of the mess with this country is that many people are so quick to litigate. In the end it affects all of us. We pay for it daily in many things we buy. I sent the parts back. Because if any changes they can make that will help someone else out would be worth some of the pain I've been through. I can't say that the sliders would have changed the amount of damage on my bike. No one can. But Rob and I have agreed that the slider came off way too easily. But this whole environment created by litigation was really apparent when I was speaking with Rob. He had to qualify his words with me several times and there were some phrasings of words that sounded too much like legal protectionist jargon. I certainly understand that he has to CYA himself incase I may take some things out of context. But those that know me...know that I'm not like that. People just can't talk to people when it's between parties in a business transaction on a personal level anymore. That to me is sad.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted October 07, 2004 09:56 PM
 Edited By: frEEk on 7 Oct 2004 22:58
hear hear.
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