posted June 29, 2004 08:45 AM
MR9 fuel Why is MR9 fuel supposedly better fuel than say c16 for our 10's, when it only has a motor octane rating of 87? Just curious, maybe someone on the board knows more than I do about it.
posted June 29, 2004 09:48 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 30 Jun 2004 06:10
MR9 is better oxygenated I believe. (magazine knowlege haha). Higher octane does not yield automatic more power. Actually lowest octane available without pinging/knocking internally is what you want for more power.
Theoretically:With high compression motors ya can go higher octane and still avoid harmfull detonations.
Octane is directly related to detonation resistance not how much oxygen per given quantity of any fuel.
posted June 29, 2004 10:40 AM
Edited By: dnwhoop02 on 29 Jun 2004 11:41
quote:
Theoretically:With high compression motors ya can go higher octane and still avoid harmfull detonations.
isn't it more like, with high compression motors you must go with a higher octane fuel to avoid detonation?
(not trying to be a smart-ass, just asking....)
____________
David
'04 ZX-10R
'00 SV650
posted June 29, 2004 10:45 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 29 Jun 2004 13:05
Yes that is a more accurate statement; depends how HIGH the compression right?
here is more official info;
OCTANE RATING:
Gasoline typically carries an octane rating, which is a measure of how resistant gasoline is to premature detonation (knocking). It is measured relative to a mixture of isooctane (2,2,4-trimethylpentane) and n-heptane. So an 87-octane petrol has the same knock resistance as a mixture of 87% isooctane and 13% heptane. Petrol is typically separated from crude oil via distillation, so the mixture of the molecules in the resulting fuel is dependent on the oil used. Romania was a supplier of "light-sweet" crude oil, which, when distilled, resulted in a petrol with an 87 rating. 87 octane was the general benchmark for much of the world, and is the current standard rating for "normal" petrol in the US and Canada.
It is possible to have octane ratings above 100, which seems confusing but merely reflects the fact that octane is not the most intensely burning substance available. Racing fuels typically have octane ratings of 110 or significantly higher.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings burn less easily, yet are generally considered more powerful. Using a fuel with a higher octane allows the engine to be run at higher compressions, and not have problems with knock. Compression is directly related to power, so engines using higher octane deliver more power, explaining the common misconception. Some high-performance engines are designed to operate at the higher compression levels associated with high octane numbers, and thus demand high-octane gasoline.
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Posts: 3212
posted June 29, 2004 11:20 AM
I don't know anything about octane vs. oxygenated. Having said that, doesn't the owner's manual state that a octane rating of 91 is the minimum? Not sure what method is used to calculate the rating.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted June 29, 2004 12:36 PM
http://www.vpracingfuels.com
Best thing to do is go directly to the experts for an expert explanation.
Leaded race fuel octane ratings are I believe derived at differently than pump fuel. My understanding is the oxygen content is more critical than "octane rating". But there are a host of other considerations such as compression ratio that would affect your choices. But they can probably explain in much more detail. Not sure you want to run leaded fuels through the cat if you have the stock muffler. They have choices of unleaded fuels as well.
I believe VP is now used by every factory roadrace program. And it's not about just giving it away and/or paying them. They've got great techs & support staff. We use it exclusively here during testing as well. Whether it's "better" than C16 or not, I couldn't answer that because we've never tested C16.
We did do extensive testing on a ZX12 with VP Ultimate4, MR1, and MR9. You could search back and probably locate it if you're curious. MR9 is/was worth over 7 hp by itself!
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Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted June 29, 2004 03:27 PM
KB, Have you ever tested C12?
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted June 29, 2004 03:53 PM
Nope, never have on the dyno. I've run it, but really could not tell if it was better or worse. The only documented tests I've got are with VP. And since all our "test" fuel is gratious, I haven't been motivated to try anything else...
posted June 30, 2004 07:42 AM
No swft - we say/pronounce it "gra-tiss". Depending on how you look at it, we either butcher the language or make up our own along the way...
posted June 30, 2004 04:14 PM
'gratis' is a word. 'Gratuitous' now means 'freely' as in 'without provocation', and gratis now means 'free of encumbrance or charge'...
"I dispense gratuitous insults. It's a service I provide gratis.'
____________
ASMA 47
WERA 147
posted June 30, 2004 08:12 PM
LMAO! kz2zx - Yes, I know this. I'm trying to mess with swft and you're playing it straight. He ruined me when I was blue....so let Papa Smurf have some fun!
posted June 30, 2004 08:23 PM
Edited By: k bryant on 30 Jun 2004 21:25
Absolutely no changes to the mapping. Just poured it in and instant big power gain.
Here's a post from another thread. You can cut & paste to view the whole spiel.
I'm not sure if this link will work. But in July '03, I did some pretty extensive tests of VP race fuels using my ZX12 and posted on the ZX12 site. In particular Ultimate 4, MR1, & MR9. Your results may vary, but MR9 was worth well over 7 hp as compared to pump gas just pouring it in with no other changes to the existing set-up. And when using other "mystery" mixes with the race team, it's worth more. But the costs are prohibitive...
posted July 01, 2004 06:01 AM
I have been doing alot of investigating into the MR9 fuel and only hear good things!!!...All the Pros are using it and the MR9 is part of the reason they are getting the big MPH...
Its ok to leave in the gas tank, wont hurt the gaskets or the fuel pump...The only problems are trying to get it and the cost ranges from $ 90.00 to 99.00 for 5 gallon pail, which adds up to $ 18.00 per gallon!!!
$ 18.00 a gallon is the reason why I am hesitating, im not a pro and really dont need that few extra HorsePower for Bracket Racing, well I can use it but it really isnt worth it to me...The other problem is buying it, I would need to get 2 or 3 pails so I dont run out...Once I start using it, I know there is no going back...
____________ Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
posted July 01, 2004 07:16 AM
If you don't want to go all the way to MR9 cost, you can still get 3 or 4 hp with Ultimate 4, and I believe it's "only" around $8.00 a gallon.
posted July 01, 2004 07:41 AM
Ult 4 is the best bang for the buck, but it is not AMA legal. Check wit hyour local org. to make sure they don't have a fuel rule. Most racers out here in Cali use pump gas for practice and then when it matters throw the MR9 or Ult. 4 in. It's a little more cost effective, but if you want to run with the big boys, you better be prepared to spend some money. BTW, my experience with c12 in a stock motor was actually worse than pump gas. Because the compression on these motors isn't high enough to really need the 112 octane, and the no oxegenate, etc. the gas burns too slow and the motor actually made less hp. Just my experience, take it for what it's worth
posted July 01, 2004 03:28 PM
I'm gonna guess that the MR9 fuel is one of those "funny" fuels, that produce exhaust that is even more toxic than whats produced with regular fuels. Just be careful when using the stuff not to breathe the exhaust. If it is questionable whether it will pass fuel tests, its probably one of those.
One 5 gallon bucket would pay for the thinner head gasket, and be cost effective over the long run, other than the labor to put it in.............
quote:
One 5 gallon bucket would pay for the thinner head gasket, and be cost effective over the long run, other than the labor to put it in.............
Ah - But then the evil of the never-ending search for more power. Even after the head gasket, why would you not still run the MR9...... And would the thinner head gasket give the power increase of the MR9 anyway?.... It's never ending. And it's all good!
posted July 01, 2004 09:53 PM
You're right, its all good. Unfortunately, probably the MR9, and some of the other fuels mentioned will not pass fuel tests. I'm ok with 5 bucks a gallon, but not 18+.
posted July 02, 2004 07:15 AM
MR9 and Special 5 from Nutec are legal in every organization that I am aware of, which is part of the reason they are $18 a gallon. Remember, it's not how fast you go, it's how fast you spend!
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posted June 29, 2004 08:45 AM
Edited By: 
