posted June 18, 2004 03:21 AM
What's stopping them? (closed loop) I can't believe that in this day and age we aren't all riding bikes with closed loop fuel controls. The components are cheap and the technology is already very old. Maybe with the new California Air Standards coming out the motorcycle manufacturers will be forced to go closed loop. I have a dream, that one day all bikes will sniff their exhausts.
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posted June 18, 2004 04:31 AM
Some bikes actually are sniffing exhaust,like Honda,Yamaha,Suzuki........
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posted June 18, 2004 06:04 AM
I think the biggest challenge is measuring the rate of change for a motor that can rev as freely and have such a wide operating range as a modern sportbike. Harleys are pretty much in the same rev range as a modern car, right?
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posted June 18, 2004 12:10 PM
No way... 50s cars have wayyyyy more technology to them....lol
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posted June 18, 2004 03:33 PM
do f1 cars have closed loop? i'd tend to assume so. if they can pull it off with 8 cylinders (i _think_ it's 8?) at 19000rpm, then they can do it for a 15,000rpm 4cyl bike too. and it's not like computers are all that expensive. i would definteiyl be curious as to what the major reasons for not using cosed loop are.
posted June 18, 2004 03:51 PM
of course, but that's bound to be cause they're constatnly undergoing r&d and the production numbers are miniscule. i'd think in real world production numbers you could make them pretty darn cheap.
posted June 18, 2004 07:31 PM
Obviously the engines are still running clean enough to where the factories are spared the added cost of installing O2 sensors. Pretty amazing considering the performance and rpm range these engines run at.
My F4i has an O2 sensor and it was not easy finding a slip-on that has an O2 bung.
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posted June 18, 2004 07:54 PM
swft has a pretty good theory about the rate of change in rpm. How does that theory hold when applied to dyno runs. It seems like the runs I did had a fairly fast rate of rpm change, and I hope the sniffer was keeping up or my fuel curve was bogus. Any more hypothesis?
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posted June 19, 2004 09:44 AM
Measuring is not a closed loop. The dyno measures, but doesn't correct real time. Even Tuning Link is not real time. That requires something that can make hundreds of samples per minute and adjust the amount of fuel being delivered real time, plus factor in changing conditions.
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posted June 19, 2004 11:00 AM
But wouldn't the slow response time of the O2 sensor mean the fuel curve that the dyno software shows is in fact not aligned with the RPM range in any meaningful way? In other words, if it shows that I'm rich from 3500 to 7500 rpm, for all I know it's really from 2500 to 6500rpm. Now granted, as long as the curve is flat, rpm is irrelevant.
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posted June 19, 2004 11:07 AM
I believe Triumph has closed loop systems on the re bikes.
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posted June 19, 2004 06:43 PM
Edited By: Erich on 19 Jun 2004 19:43
Honda has been using closed loop in a hybrid version for some time. Theirs uses closed loop on the bottom of the RPM range than changed to open throughout the powerband. And I am relatively sure BMW uses it (not that their bikes are any good).
From an ease of tuning perspective, open loop does have some advantages. Primarily in the equipment expense (such as wideband 02 sensors) and you are not limited by the factory ECUs available range.
Looks like aftermaket pipes are now coming out with bungs for O2 sensors, so its getting more popular in certain tuning circles. Like those that have mega dollar motec setups. But dont expect the main jap factories to be full closed loop anytime soon.
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posted June 18, 2004 03:21 AM
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