zeta xray
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posted January 13, 2004 01:34 PM
What does Honda & Ducati know?
What does Honda & Ducati know, that Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki don't? Back before any of the new bikes hit the track, the director of Ducati's Superbike program made a comment that Honda had built into the CBR1000RR what it needed to be able compete in Superbike. Now keep in mind, I doubt that he had any access to any of the new bikes at that time. What was it that he saw that made him say that?
  
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k bryant
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posted January 13, 2004 06:13 PM
They know how to spend more money, sign the best riders, and most important, they both ride red!
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extremelean
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posted January 13, 2004 06:28 PM
NOT!!!........pffft.......red....sheesh....we have red bikes
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zeta xray
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posted January 13, 2004 11:01 PM
Oh, I think I understand. Ferrari = red, Ducati = red, Honda = red. The answer is often in plain sight. But wait,,,,, didn't Rob Muzzy get a lot of green bikes into the winners circle?
Thanks for the "insight" there. But I am still curious what it was that he saw that prompted him to make that statement. I doubt that he was refering to money or personel. I didn't get that impression.
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tuusinii
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posted January 13, 2004 11:32 PM
Maybe he was referring to the XL radiator and cassette transmission? Aren't those features quite exeptional for a streetbike. Though in superbike they can change the radiator - can't they? But not in superstock?
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Broken Wind
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posted January 14, 2004 01:43 PM
quote:
They know how to spend more money, sign the best riders, and most important, they both ride red!
you think Ducati can spend more money than suk-zuki and KHI?
____________
chitty chitty bang bang
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zeta xray
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posted January 14, 2004 05:08 PM
quote:
quote:
They know how to spend more money, sign the best riders, and most important, they both ride red!
you think Ducati can spend more money than suk-zuki and KHI?
In terms of motorcycle road racing, I doubt that Ducati could spend more money than Suzuki or KHI, if KHI and Suzuki were willing to put their full corporate weight behind road racing. But if you ask the question, "Is Ducati willing to spend more money than Suzuki or KHI?" The answer would be an emphatic YES... Racing is an all consumming passion with Ducati. Ducati sells street bikes to finance their racing. Other companies, race to sell their street bikes. It is the Italian spirit. Maserati went bankrupt by spending all of their resources on racing. Ferrari had to be bailed out by Fiat. And remember, Ducati's racing budget is not split up sponsoring motocross, 4-wheelers, Jet-Ski's, etc.
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redelk
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posted January 14, 2004 06:08 PM
 Edited By: redelk on 14 Jan 2004 18:09
quote:
you think Ducati can spend more money than suk-zuki and KHI?
Easily.
Check out the numbers for Consumer Products Division (where motorcycles fall under) in KHI's last annual report. Hell, check out the annual reports for all three. Anyway, it doesn't matter what the amount of available capital any of these corporations have on hand. It's what they are willing to spend.
There's one thing to keep in mind when looking at the CPD numbers from KHI. Even though KHI's consumer products division brings in 25% of sales, it not only consists of motorcycles, Jet Skis, and all-terrain vehicles, but also general purpose engines, brush cutters, transmissions and industrial robotics (for the auto manufacturers and such).
In 2003, KHI's CPD had a net sales of almost 3 billion dollars ($2.05 bil in '02). While lil' ole DMC had $522 million in 2002. Oh! Wait a minute! KHI's numbers include ALL of the CPD's products while Ducati's is just motorcycles.
In other words, neither Kawasaki's or Suzuki's divisions that include motorcycles are hardly flush with cash to spend on motorcycle activities. In KHI's own annual report, they show they have little interest in spending money on such when they said the following...
Operating income posted a rise of ¥8.2 billion, or 158.7%, to ¥13.4 billion, owing to a combination of higher sales, lower costs, and reduced sales promotion expenses for new-model motorcycles.
Part of that lower cost comes from the sharing of information and actual models with Suzuki. Still both swear that their sportbike development programs are not part of the sharing agreement. With that being accepted as the case, the capital necessary for such R&D, field testing and promotion is left to the individual companies to come up with.
When discussing new models, they mentioned releases in '03, but not a peep on the Vulcan 2000 or ZX-10R' planned release. No metion of any form of racing (AMA, MX, JetSki) with the exception of this...
In April 2003, Kawasaki returned to the MotoGP class of the FIM (Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme) Road Racing World Championship, the world's top international road-racing series, with a lime-green factory machine, the Ninja ZX-RR.
So, one asks if DMC can spend more money on racing than KHI or Suzuki, I'd almost think that they spend close to the same amount as the other two manufacturers... COMBINED!
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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k bryant
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posted January 14, 2004 06:26 PM
I might not argue that point with you.
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redelk
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posted January 14, 2004 06:32 PM
Oh come on, KB. You know as well as everybody else here that I don't have a clue on what I just posted. I just read, copied and pasted stuff from various annual reports and made a real big assumption.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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extremelean
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posted January 14, 2004 06:33 PM
HUH
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1bad7
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posted January 15, 2004 02:42 AM
I liked it, cool.
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frEEk
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ummm... yeah
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posted January 15, 2004 03:07 AM
sure makes sense to me. everyoen tends to play the "honda has so much money" card, but forget that the automotive racing and R&D departments are bound to be clamoring [sp] for that cash too, and liekly louder than the MC division. and that's not even mentioning honda's ROBOT division, which undoubtedly is at least 95% loss seeing as they have rediculous amounts of r&d to do, and like NO sales.
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jonwright
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posted January 15, 2004 03:59 PM
Well, $$$ has a big say in it no doubt. I'd like to see how much ANNUALLY these guys spend on racing might reflect a bit on success. With more $$$ one would ASSUME you could get the best riders, equipment, R&D for parts, and crews.
But the Ducati Corse man comment does indeed lead one to think that he knows WAAAYY more than he's saying.
I wouldn't doubt that espionage of sorts is also a fact in racing such as this....or at least rumors. 
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k bryant
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posted January 15, 2004 05:10 PM
$20m budget for American Honda RR effort.
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zeta xray
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posted January 16, 2004 07:29 PM
Anyone have any idea what the budget is for Kawasaki in US road racing?
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