Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted December 12, 2003 02:11 PM
I have had a slider for about 4 years now..........it is my left hand!!! 
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
  
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted December 12, 2003 02:57 PM
quote:
I agree with Wannabe.
You agree about the slider and turbo or the fact that I know a lot of useless information? 
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted December 15, 2003 02:30 PM
quote:
Also, a little more info on the slider. Most people say that you don't want to use a slider on a turbo bike because they are somewhat contradictory. The slider likes to launch at lower rpms while you need to launch at higher rpm with the turbo to have some boost pressure built up.
Boy, I am full of random drag-race information that I may never use.
Yea, you are full of random INCORRECT information. I dont understand why they say not to use a slider with a turbo. But has NOTHING to do with rpm like you say. You can launch at nearly any rpm with "some" boost if you launch off a two step, since a turbo spooling has absolutely nothing to do with rpm, only load. I figure, since a slider loads the tire so perfectly, it would be great for a turbobike, allowing the power to be increased and applied in a VERY controllable fashion. Ive very much thought about an outlaw turbo 12 with a slider....what a fucking 60 footing, top end pulling bastard that would be....
Nick
Pro-Cycles
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Cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted December 15, 2003 02:54 PM
I don't know anyone who uses a slider on a turbo bike.But I'm up in Canada and we race in between igloos.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted December 15, 2003 05:45 PM
yeah, traction's a bitch up here
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted December 15, 2003 05:51 PM
quote:
Yea, you are full of random INCORRECT information. I dont understand why they say not to use a slider with a turbo. But has NOTHING to do with rpm like you say. You can launch at nearly any rpm with "some" boost if you launch off a two step, since a turbo spooling has absolutely nothing to do with rpm, only load. I figure, since a slider loads the tire so perfectly, it would be great for a turbobike, allowing the power to be increased and applied in a VERY controllable fashion. Ive very much thought about an outlaw turbo 12 with a slider....what a fucking 60 footing, top end pulling bastard that would be....
Then, please try it and let me know. I'd love to find out that I'm wrong. I've only seen one guy do it with a turbo and a slider so far.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted December 15, 2003 09:53 PM
I hope someone on here gets one, and does a back to back comparison to see how much short times improve. Since it's illegal in most classes, I'm only interested in one for saturday nights if you know what I mean.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted December 15, 2003 09:57 PM
quote:
since a turbo spooling has absolutely nothing to do with rpm, only load.
say what?
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted December 16, 2003 07:59 AM
Say what? Turbos are spooled due to engine load, not rpm.....sorry if you were misinformed...
Nick
Pro-Cycles
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Lil Cec
Parking Attendant
Posts: 2
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posted December 18, 2003 09:45 PM
Here should be a picture to answer some of the questions ther is no bar My bike has 8" arm and a MT shootout tire and the key ingrediant the rider JIM Carroll. notice there is no clutch lever just tighten up the suspension and wake the throttle. No 2 step its my street bike just with the slider in it you cant ride it on the street.
http://www.dragbikephotos.com/store/scripts/imageFolio.pl?action=view&link=Drag_Bike_Photos/Prostar/2003_Prostar_Race_9_-_World_Finals/Sportsman_Streetbikes&image=3P9-1876.jpg&img=80&tt=&tfile=tn_3P9-1876.jpg
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CECIL
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ohitstodd
Novice Class
Posts: 73
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posted December 22, 2003 04:12 PM
Lemme assist, Cecil.
http://tinyurl.com/2syu3
I'm a 'net head.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted December 23, 2003 09:22 AM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 23 Dec 2003 09:22
come one guys... all ya need to do is buy an 00 or 01 12 ... the clutch 'll "slide" fer free fer ya after about 3000miles of use and you'll save yerself all that money
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted December 23, 2003 10:06 AM
Yeah, and basket bits 'll "slide" right into yer oil pan, lol.
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Some day, you're going to run out of some days
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted December 23, 2003 12:23 PM
quote:
Say what? Turbos are spooled due to engine load, not rpm.....sorry if you were misinformed...
So you are saying that if I have the clutch lever pulled in..and I rev my bike up to 12,000 RPM...my turbo wont spool because there is no load on the engine?
Thats a bit silly.
Last I checked turbos ran off exhaust gasses...which increase proportionally with RPM.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted December 23, 2003 01:37 PM
So what is the difference between this and using a billet basket, Steels, fibers, and springs, along with the Muzzy lockup?
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted December 23, 2003 01:53 PM
In my limited about of experience with turbocharging, I did spend quite a bit of time doing some research on the subject when I was thinking about going that route with my Mustang.
Hot explanding exhaust gas is what spools the turbo. If you free rev up to 12,000 rpm, sure the turbo will spool up, but it won't hold that boost. It will only build boost while it's under load on the way to 12,000rpm. Once it's there it won't hold the boost level.
Take a manual transmission turbo car, and a automatic turbo car. Free rev the manual to 6,000rpm, and then run the automatic up on its converter to 1500rpm. The auto car will build more boost, and hold it, at a lower rpm level. This is why people will use two-steps on manual transmission turbo vehicles. To keep a load on the engine, to keep the exhaust gas hotter, building, and holding boost.
The big Diesel engines are the same way. Not exactly rev monsters, but they create a shit-ton of hot exhaust gas due in part to really high compression, and huge loads placed on the engine.
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Some day, you're going to run out of some days
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted December 23, 2003 01:53 PM
quote:
So what is the difference between this and using a billet basket, Steels, fibers, and springs, along with the Muzzy lockup?
Sounds to me like this slider clutch is more like a centrifugal clutch. Kinda like a go kart, lol.
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Some day, you're going to run out of some days
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted December 24, 2003 11:59 AM
Edited By: supraman95mb on 24 Dec 2003 12:04
YOu are correct!! I have a 95 big turboed supra. I have had both autos and 6spds and you done make boost by reving. You only make boost by 2steps or by load.
www.freepichosting.com/Album/index.cgi?id=120256&pic=15.jpg
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted December 24, 2003 01:34 PM
interesting..learn something new every day.
So it does build boost by revving..just doesnt maintain it 
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted December 24, 2003 03:07 PM
maybe i'm wrong here, but i seriously doubt it:
boost is as mentioned simply a product of how much gas (not fuel, but gas as in not solid or liquid or plasma) exits the exhaust ports. this in turn is going to be dependant on a combination of load AND rpm. low rpm with low load will reduce in low boost. high rom at low load will be medium boost, high load at low rpm is also medium boost, and high load at high rpm (like top speed runs or in the middle of a drag run just before shifting) is obviously high (peak) boost.
in terms of staging, the only real options are those that lead to medium boost right? so either u load it up my applying the front brakes and giving it a little clutch to apply some load to the engine without breaking traction on the rear wheel, or you leave the clutch pulled in and keep the rpms high but under no load (other than the internal load; piston movement, ring friction, etc). now sounds to me from teh descriptions given above that neither option is possible in a slider right? there's no clutch so u cant keep the rpms up, and if u load the clutch it will lock up right? or can u load the clutch just enough to is starts to slide a touch, same like with a "normal" clutch? in that case, the low RPM/high load options is the only thing u can do with the slider i'd think. now if the sliders really do work jsut like snowmobile clutches, i know from experiene that u can put load them pretty good at standstill without them lurching forward or bogging down the engine. u just give em enough gas that they put some torue to the treads but not enough to get u going. u can definitely hear the engine loading, and to get to that point u'r well above idle so u ought to have sufficient RPM for decent boost. course, that's with 2strokes, dont know what changes when going to 4stroke.
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted December 24, 2003 04:48 PM
The hotter the exhaust gas, the more it's expanding... the faster/more the turbo will spool up. Holding boost is not dependent on RPM, it's dependent on load.
Don't forget, we're talking about a limit to the amount of boost you can run. Full boost can be reached at a low RPM as long as there is a high load on the engine. Turbo diesels are a good example. Low RPM, very high load.
The slider deal, I think that's why 2 steps were being talked about.
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Some day, you're going to run out of some days
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted December 25, 2003 01:19 PM
Edited By: AnotherRedHead on 25 Dec 2003 13:24
WHen you FREE REV the motor to 12000 rpm it does load the motor a SMALL amount on the way up, do you not understand? If you hold 8000rpm forever with a turbo on your bike, you will be making NO boost. If you have it at idle, whack the gas and hold it till redline, you MIGHT get 6 psi out of it. Maybe less, but thats only for a split second until you let off the gas and it comes back down. If you hold it at 12000 you wont keep the boost, it will fall straight off, and just make your header glow red hot from there being no load on your 12000 rpm motor....ON the flipside free rev it from idle till launch,let out the clutch and INCREASE The load making more boost as the bike moves. Why do you think turbo bikes rev like they do before taking off? Because putting load on the motor wam wam wam wam wam wam revving it, makes a little boost so they can leave the line.
The "innovative" way of doing it is by using a two step. When doing this tuners can decrease timing at the two-step activation in huge amounts, which causes a popping sound, which is exhaust gases nearly exploding in the header because of the low low timing. This spools a turbo from a stop faster than anything on the planet. Go watch a pro5.0 race. Hear that loud ass pops before they blast off....there ya go....
Nick
<-----someone just ask me
OH yeah, and Matt is right, think about big turbo diesel trucks. Huge loads to carry, huge loads to put on motors that have a 3000rpm redline
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