addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 10, 2003 01:21 PM
Why do 1397 Busas have more HP than 1361+ 12's
Looking for opinions/thoughts as to why a lot of well tuned 1397 Hayabusas seem to be able to make anywhere between 5-15 more SAE hp than big bore/stroked 12's with PUMP gas?! Don't make sense to me, as our 12's rev 1k higher. What are the 12 tuners missing? To me the 1k rpm advantage should more than offset the 36cc advantage the 1397 has.
  
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Bossman12R
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted November 10, 2003 01:47 PM
Most Busa's have the head done with bigger valves and cams!
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 10, 2003 02:11 PM
They start out with less so they know that they must spend more! Sort of like Harley owners! they think nothing of dropping 10 to 20K "AFTER" buying the bike to make it run lke they thought it should have to begin with! It is US, the Kawasaki Owners that think we do not need to spend money!!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted November 10, 2003 02:40 PM
is it cam lift? (non-stock)
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted November 10, 2003 02:49 PM
Less bore, more stroke = more torque? And hp is a function of torque?
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted November 10, 2003 04:02 PM
quote:
Looking for opinions/thoughts as to why a lot of well tuned 1397 Hayabusas seem to be able to make anywhere between 5-15 more SAE hp than big bore/stroked 12's with PUMP gas?! Don't make sense to me, as our 12's rev 1k higher. What are the 12 tuners missing? To me the 1k rpm advantage should more than offset the 36cc advantage the 1397 has.
What hp is yours putting out?
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 10, 2003 05:12 PM
Last dyno pull, it was at 200hp even. Timing was retarded 2 degrees for dry shot tuning. Usually 203 to 205 sae on pump gas. Apparently not too much more I can do without making it real peaky and unstreetable! I mean a true streetbike, that you can ride 5k plus a year.
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted November 10, 2003 07:22 PM
I'm not too sure I agree that most 1397s make more hp. I don't believe I've seen hardly any busas that have gone more mph than my 1361 at the Texas Shootout. I'm sure there are some out there but I've also ridden a friends 1397 at the strip recently and it wasn't impressive at all, 146mph. But then again, his 1380? zx12 only went 146mph also with me on it. I'm thinking the tuning is definitely a big part of my friends bikes problems. I would guess that the 1397s you speak of are probably well cammed, ported and optimized combos that someone with a lot of busa experience has done a bunch of. What are busa limiters set at? I didn't realize they were that much lower.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted November 10, 2003 07:24 PM
i'v read of several 1361's doing in the 210hp area, up to 212 for megabyte's Velasco built engine. of course, we're getting into differences small enough that dyno variances can easily overpower them.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 10, 2003 07:24 PM
what it puts down on the dyno..and what kinda mph it lays down at the track are two different things 
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ZXALAN
Expert Class
Posts: 156
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posted November 10, 2003 08:03 PM
Down here, most 1397s with cams and stock heads are under 200hp with a custom map. Actually most average 190-195hp. With some good headwork and bigger cams we may have a few over 200-205hp.. Entropys 12R made like 210hp on the same dyno all the 1397s are being tune on. We don't seem to see the HP that all the North eastern guys are getting. Combos that are supposedly getting 220hp in Ohio, Carolinas, etc are barely breaking 200hp down here. YET we can run the same mph.... HMMM
AND 36cc are 36cc, which is the equivalent to another 1mm overbore or so. It definetly makes a difference. I think the 12Rs must have a better head.
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ZXALAN
Expert Class
Posts: 156
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posted November 10, 2003 08:06 PM
Maybe Entropy can clue us in on his HP numbers with the MANY  various combos he has ran. I know some of em but I don't want to spill what might be classified info...
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted November 10, 2003 08:25 PM
Well a 1427 is bigger than a 1397 but the Busa is still using its stock crank and stock crank bikes usally will last longer than a stroker. The 12 can't make the torque of a Busa and thats why the busa is eazer to drag. If we can get the 12 as low as the Busa's CG more 12's would be in the winners circle.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted November 12, 2003 09:38 AM
Addison, I have asked myself a similar question!!!
Why cant Rickey Gadson get his PSB 12 to be as fast as Mike Slowe PSB Busa???
Why isnt there a Velocity Turbo for the 12???
Why are there 12 Busas and me - with the only ZX12 at Englishtown, NJ for TopStreetBike???...I know this question though, because Busas are easier to ride, more race parts/tunners available for them...
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*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Bossman12R
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted November 12, 2003 09:52 AM
The good news is Velocity has a turbo for the 12 and at 12 lbs of boost it made 300 HP, I wounder what the Busa made at that boost? But with out a turbo it is hard to beat CC's and the Busa is just bigger and lower in CG.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted November 12, 2003 01:45 PM
quote:
I know this question though, because Busas are easier to ride, more race parts/tunners available for them...
Ditto! I work on both of them and by far the Busa is easier to work on and make it go fast than the 12. 12 requires more attention to detail to keep going fast ie.. clutches big problem compared to the Busa. Busa is just a better drag racing platform.
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted November 12, 2003 01:53 PM
 Edited By: kzz1 on 12 Nov 2003 13:54
quote:
The good news is Velocity has a turbo for the 12 and at 12 lbs of boost it made 300 HP, I wounder what the Busa made at that boost? But with out a turbo it is hard to beat CC's and the Busa is just bigger and lower in CG.
I was told that the stock Busa rods are good for 320hp so bolting on a turbo on a Busa would work without internal mods done to the motor which we are strongly considering doing for next year. The 12 I have little fate that the stock rods would hold up on the 12 as the 12 already is highly tune state from the factory. Just a quess though. I don't think it will hold up under boost for long unless you go in and change the rods to Carillos. More cost effective to turbo a Busa than a 12 and I like and ride both.
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Bossman12R
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted November 12, 2003 02:00 PM
Muzzy claims they are using a stock lower end on the rpo mod and the SBS. Muzzy is claiming around 500 HP and 400 Torqe on both bikes.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 12, 2003 04:35 PM
Kzz1, If I go turbo. Definitely Busa! But I'd still have Carrillo H rods in it. I will hate retiring the 12 though! We'll see.
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