kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted September 30, 2003 10:40 PM
Wet vs dry NOS kits?
Which is better? Can I use a larger jet bigger than a 40hp shot in a dry kit? What will I need to do this saftely without harming the motor? motor has a piston kit with the stock valve springs and was told to go with the hd valve springs if you are spraying. Anyone using a wet kit? Who makes it? I have seen the Muzzy stealth kit. A bit pricey but if its the ticket, then it will be worth the money. ZX12 Girl wants a bigger hit 
  
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01zx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 338
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posted October 01, 2003 01:20 AM
No doubt Muzzys kit is awsome. I just got a wet kit fot the bike and kinda made my own system with bear stacks and nylon line i got from Schnitz. Im using a progressive controller also spraying a max of 60hp (stock system) You might want to consider adding a second shot to your system.
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Lovett Racing/Pedigo Performance
8.40 @170
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted October 01, 2003 04:20 AM
To the top!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted October 01, 2003 07:09 AM
What is your budget?
Pros of Dry:
Simple easy setup
Cheap
Cons:
Need to add fuel some other way (pc3..bigger fuel pump)
Can only spray so much before you cant get enough fuel to compensate (im currently on about a 85 shot)
Wet Pros
Unlimited hp (well as much as your engine can hold)
Adding fuel is just a jet change away
Cons:
Uber expensive easily 2 to 3 times the cost of a dry kit
Much more complex. More lines, more nozzles, more jets, more solenoids, more wires etc
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted October 01, 2003 07:32 AM
Your car is slow... are you using a dry kit? If so, what is your setup? zx12 girls setup is only a 40 hp shot stock fuel pump and Richen up the mid and highs on pc. What do I need to run a 85 hp shot and what pump and cost to make thiss happen?
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted October 01, 2003 08:54 AM
 Edited By: your car is slow on 1 Oct 2003 09:55
I have the schnitz dry kit setup for a single stage. I richened up the PC3 to as far as it would go within the map (+45% in the higher rpm ranges).
Kit was about 450 dollars...about an hour to install....however I started small (with say like a 40hp shot) and gradually worked my way up to where it is now using a wideband 02 sensor and numerous dyno runs to keep the A/F ratio in check.
I also have the stock fuel pump btw.
242hp/138tq spinning the tire on the drum on the last dyno run.
All that for 500 bucks? It should be installed from the factory IMO!
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted October 01, 2003 08:02 PM
quote:
It should be installed from the factory IMO!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 05, 2003 10:48 PM
Kzz, have you seen my set up? I used the Bear stacks and wet! Like Brian says, the main advantage is you non spray set up is perfect and clean. I had "Nothing" when I started and with mistakes learning and changing I have spent close to $1,000. This includes a Nitrous Express Kit (I got for $550) I used 4 wet fogger Nozzles (for the longer reach in the Bear stack) $140. Another Bottle $140 (2.5 pounds) and Oil filled gauge and adaptors to use it, Filling the Bottles and 3 foot line and 1 foot line about $150.
I have spent about $25 on assorted fittings, switches and other things that part can be included and some cannot because they were used to relocate the ECU and other parts. As you can see right at $1,000
Soon I will add $200 for the testing phase because I am buying an Infra Red with a "K" Probe heat sensor that will test up to 1800 degrees on laser and 2,200 with the Probe. From whay I have learned (I am trying to get to +0) that a good way to verify the performance is the heat in the exhaust pipe! Plus 30 degrees is about perfect! Less and you are too rich and hotter you are too lean! I plan to use about 60 shot myself with a stage richer on fuel. The guy said when you spray before the injectors, you must add more fuel and a little more NOS to have the same as if you spray in the boots after the injectors spray fuel!
You saw my set up?? On the 12 board under No Maxton!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 05, 2003 10:52 PM
Looks like I am spending twice the money to have the same performance off NOS as I did before I installed and hopefully and keep the engine safe.
I looked at a lot of things before I did this and if I never planned to ride the bike on the street and never raced it off spray, then dry!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 07, 2003 11:25 AM
Hey kzz1 im in the same boat as you. I'm trying to decide which system is safer and better. I use to run dry nos on my mustang and it was idiot proof. Has anyone setup there nos so they can spray in 1st? Is there a progressive set up that allows you to dial in a certain percentage of nos. What im looking for is to maximize my qtr mile times. I'd like to be able to use a small amount off the line and use more nos in each gear. Additionally, I'd like some type of switch that turns on the nos say at 6k and automatically shuts off around 11k so i don't accidentally miss a shift and go boom!! Also is there a microswitch device that would allow the nos to be turned on only under 100% throttle and not be activated by holding down the horn button? I'm refering to my mustang again because it had a arming switch and then a microswitch that only worked under full throttle.
Last but not least I see on the dry systems it basically sprays nos into the airbox and relies on the ect to add more fuel. Muzzy's dry kit places nozzles directly over the throttle bodies for better nos distribution but what about the ect sensor? If i go with the dry set up how much is it for the additional stuff? YCIS, can the power commander be adjusted on the fly, so that i can use my regular map and then adjust it a few bars and let the nos rip when i want to race? How much nos can i use and be as near to 100% safe as possible? My bike has a carpenter built 1290 and is around 200 hp. Thanks for any input in advance!!
dry kit- $349.00- 500.00
progressive controller-$$??
microswitch- $$??
bottle heater, pressure guage, wiring etc?
price for install?
Who would you guys recommened to install a nos system in the southwest area New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado area?
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted October 07, 2003 12:10 PM
Schnitz sells a progressive controller...its about 250 bucks...I never got to install it. Sold it to a Local Mustang guy who used it successfully in his car!
The microswitch you will have to purchase 3rd party and find a way to mount it up to your throttle body pulley.
Pressure gauges can be purchased with or without the bottle you buy...less than 30 dollars. All wiring necessary for the dry kit itself is provided in the schnitz package. As for a bottle heater...jury is still out on that one. Most ones made for cars are far too powerful.
I installed mine in under an hour....but you want more complicated stuff...I just wanted to press a button and go fast. I call it my "Whoop harrys ass" button
As for your Powercommander adjustments....you will need to get a little palmpilot and load the PC software onto it. You cannot edit a map from the palm pilot...but you can carry numerous maps within the palmpilot and upload one to the PC3 at any time you choose. I have about 7 in my Palm device right now for various occasions.
You would want at least two maps. One for max power on motor...and one for nitrous (much richer)...you would change them to suit your particular situation.
If you want to change on the fly...you would need a Yosh EMS.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted October 07, 2003 02:46 PM
Vincent, how does the fuel get to your nos system? External fuel pump? Tee off of the fuel line?
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 07, 2003 07:25 PM
As you can see, I have an external fuel pump! On the highly modified stock ZX12R fuel tank, I used the drain from the gas cap area that Broke on some of the first tanks (The Nub on the front left of the tank) to feed the fuel pump!
If I planned to run this system as a street bike, I would change the entry points to under the frame near the Throttle Bodies and mount a fuel fitting in the fuel pump plate!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted October 08, 2003 06:04 AM
What is the advantage of the external fuel pump over tee off the fuel line and adding a regulator like the muzzy system?
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 08, 2003 08:41 AM
This is the second time this has happened! I put in a reply and it dissapears!
SOme of what I said was I do not know all od the advantages and dissadvantages, but there is a limit on the HP you can mahe with a stock pump before you need to get a larger pump. Before this happens, you can start to lose a little HP. WIth the separate systems, this will happen at a higher (rather than a lower number). Second, since I made Major modifications to the fuel tank, I had a ready made way to feed the second pump! last, I never like to cut into the stock system because I never know what (if any) the effects will or could be! Then again, I am still under warranty and do not want to explain the cut in the fuel line!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted October 09, 2003 04:34 PM
Neato, Vinny!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted October 09, 2003 06:59 PM
Edited By: ninja12 on 9 Oct 2003 20:20
didn't muzzys say you could add 100 hp with there kit? 70 with stock pistons.
hear say, i don't have the kit.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 10, 2003 08:51 AM
Depending on the heat I generate, I may go up to 150 HP! I got my EGT Computer with the cable to mpunt the thremocoupler "IN" the exhaust pipe! I hate drilling the hole, but I rather have a small hole in the pipe than a large hole in the Piston!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted October 10, 2003 09:40 AM
Vincent stock pistons won't take +150 for long, be careful.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted October 10, 2003 10:15 AM
heh...I doubt you would even make it down the track once on a 150 shot with stock pistons 
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 10, 2003 11:34 AM
I do not even plan to use 100 on stock pistons! I do plan to use the stock injection system which means the stock fuel pump! (This is what I was referring to) I also do not think the valve springs / retaniers will deal with it either! When I get ready, it will be with the correct springs and retainers, Pistons & Rings. I think the rods, bearings and crank will be just fine!
Even with a 60 shot, I (Most likely will not get 100% use of the power) because I will richen it up until I see the temp that is safe to run. I am hoping to get 230 HP at a low temp so it can be run all weekend long (about 6 runs) When I get a few Bills paid, then I will do the pistons, Rings and valves. I plan to see what 300 HP feels like Kicking me in the "arse"
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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djones
Expert Class
Posts: 189
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posted October 14, 2003 05:39 AM
GREAT INFO guys!
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DJ JONES
Persimmion Red ZX-12R
Humble, Texas
http://www.texas-offroad.com
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 14, 2003 12:13 PM
http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=1941372&sku=tvc&catid=2486
Is this something that is a "MUST" to race at Maxton? Bergie, did you have one??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted October 14, 2003 12:22 PM
Edited By: RAC4IT on 14 Oct 2003 13:23
no
then again i never really had a chance to play with the spray only pilled it once or twice in 6th couldn't get it to hook / work well that day then my clutch broke
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted October 14, 2003 01:15 PM
Thats the biggest waste of 60 dollars ive ever seen.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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