kzz1
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"Show me whatcha workin with"
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posted September 28, 2003 01:50 PM
Anyone using a lock up clutch?
I'm about tired of replacing fibers and steels in zx12 girl's bike not to mention the cost. Anyone running a lock up on their 12 and does it help offset the cost of replacing the fibers and steels?
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted September 28, 2003 02:41 PM
kzz...My last clutch I got 125 passes and that was with stock motor, wheelbase, Billet Basket, 6 1087 springs-which are a touch softer cutting out wheelies by 50% and OEM 11 fibers/10 steels...By the way the 2002/03/04 hub has BIG oil passages...
As for the lockup by Muzzys it breaks the puller...
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kzz1
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posted September 28, 2003 03:46 PM
I did the mods such as shave off 40ths off the clutch puller to allow more oil in and added the Muzzy clutch basket . Doesn't matter if I use the oem plates 1.6 or 2.0 the plates and fibers are toast. She is slippng the clutch to get out the gate when she launches. Just though a lock up would help her and my wallet. Now on the Busa, don't have this problem with the clutches as bad as with the 12. Think its time to trade her in... LOL!!!
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01zx12r
Expert Class
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posted September 28, 2003 06:39 PM
Im using an MTC on my 12. This weekend was the best performance to date with clutch life. With a 12 that your pushing so hard in the 60ft short clutch life is just part of it. I usually can go a weekend without any major probs. Normal 60ft times are 1.52-1.57 and im 230lbs with gear.
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BA
Pro
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posted September 28, 2003 07:45 PM
Hey Ken,.........I'm just speculating out loud a little bit here, but,....if you are finding that the FIBERS are wearing out very quickly just like your STEELS, then that makes me think that you may not be getting the same amount of oil that some of us others are.
I mean, it seems that several of us will blister or warp the steels, but I've not heard of very many drag racers going through the fibers like it sounds like you and Ang. are......
Do you have remnants of oil on any of the plates when you take it apart??
I usually do have just a little bit on many of them, but not ALL of them. Not even enough to wipe off really, just a 'wet-ness'.
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kzz1
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posted September 28, 2003 08:09 PM
BA....fibers aren't too bad. The steels seem to be the problem. I know when the clutch starts to go south et and mph suffer and zx12 girl can tell when the clutch gets grabby and or starts to chatter when she takes off to get inline for the run. here is small amounts of oil on the fibers like you on many of them but not all of them. I will take some pictures of what I am talking about and post them. 01zx12r.....is the multi clutch setup working for you as far as extending the life of the cluthces????
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kzz1
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posted September 28, 2003 08:21 PM
BTW BA... did take the oil filler cap off between rounds and had her pull in the clutch after each pass.
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01zx12r
Expert Class
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posted September 28, 2003 08:52 PM
I wouldnt have her add oil to the clutches between passes like that. I remember reading on here someone was doing that and ended up washing all the fiber and clutch material into the oil pickup screen causing it to plug. If you are wearing clutches that bad be sure to keep the oil changed. I change mine about every 20 passes.
Clutch wear will be a problem no matter what you use for a clutch. Launch rpm is a big factor in wear. Mostly I burn the most inner fiber and slightly blue the first few steels. Outer steels and fibers wear only slightly do to the design of the lockup. Clutch setup is something that takes alot of time and a few toatsed parts before you get a baseline.
To give you an idea of the past weekend I ran my bike in street et and sbs. These classes are back to back with maybe 5 mins of cool down time max. I made a total of 10 passes that day.
1st 1.626 60ft. Made a clutch change after that pass.
9 other passes with no changes 1.527-1.577. Last pass was on the juice and had a 1.559. Im leaving the line at 4-5k.
Gearing is also another key factor in keeping a clutch alive. Hope this helps. Chris
p.s. After a pass one thing I have noticed that helped was ride the bike. Vary rpm and work the clutch alot. This seems to help build up oil back onto the clutch instead of parking the bike and let it set and cool. As it sits (clutch cover above oil level) the clutchs just seem to hot soak and will not get any lubrication.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted September 29, 2003 12:13 AM
kzz1,
I am also considering a lockup to save clutches and to prevent slipping at the big end. I'm consistently getting 1.45 - 1.48 60's w/10" arm, but I am NOT consistently throwing the clutch away fast enough. Holding onto it even for a fraction on a sec REALLY accelerates my clutch wear AND EVEN WORSE, causes wheelies for me in 1st gear.
01zx12r: Yr comments on yr lockup causing yr 60's to go South and still having clutch wear is the 1st I have heard about this. Maybe yr springs are too soft????
All the guys "in the know" at my track keep telling me "get a lockup and stop buying clutch plates"
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01zx12r
Expert Class
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posted September 29, 2003 02:39 PM
Im using a stock engine and a multistage. Show me one person using that combo out there right now. I havent found anyone that is actually THROWING away the clutch therefore clutch setup for me is trial and error at this point. Lets just say ive learned alot about clutches in the past season. So many factors come into play for static pressure. Ive just now started messing the lock-up weight.
The biggest reason I bought this clutch is I lack being able to modulate the clutch lever to get a good 60ft time.
Anyone ever see a Prostock car make a pass? Listen to the engine and watch the tires. Top fuel is a better example. Clutch setup is something ive been taking baby steps at trying not to break anymore parts (fairings, oil pan, smashed headers).
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kzz1
Zone Head
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posted September 29, 2003 07:56 PM
I'm thinking that a lock up isn't the way to go. Can't ride the bike on the street? Guess zx12 girl is gonna have to leave at a lower rpms or let out the clutch sooner.
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Cowboy
Pro
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posted September 30, 2003 07:06 AM
There is alot less clutch wear with a lockup.Last season i went threw about 3-4 steels a weekend(about 10 passes) and never had any wear on fibres all year.This season with the lockup i went threw about 5 steeels all year and 5 fibres.It seems to be harder on fibres then steels for me.My 60 foots never improved noticeably but the clutch is definately locked up at the far end with a couple more mph.Best pass this year was a 8.89@167mph.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted September 30, 2003 08:03 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 5 Oct 2003 00:04
I don't know why 60's would improve using the lockup (I have a 10" arm), but I want to get better clutch life and avoid slipping at big end.
Yesterday i sent my clutch cover/pplate to MTC for conversion to a 2 stage 
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
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posted September 30, 2003 10:14 AM
I have the MTC multistage on my 12, it is totally streetable! I got it because my 1380 seemed to be always slipping at the big end! With the lockup I don't have to be concerned about high rpm slip. Never know you even have it on the bike on the street, clutch lever pull is actually less than I had it before. But, I don't have it setup acting like a slider. I got the multistage instead of the 2 stage mainly because I wanted a gradual locking up on the street, not a on/off switch. On the track it probably don't make that much difference.
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Cmarsh93z
Novice Class
Posts: 44
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posted September 30, 2003 02:25 PM
quote:
Im using a stock engine and a multistage. Show me one person using that combo out there right now. I havent found anyone that is actually THROWING away the clutch therefore clutch setup for me is trial and error at this point. .
ME ME ME!!!!! 
I have a stock motor Zx12, that I have setup with a Multistage. I also have it setup to throw the clutch and work as a slider type clutch. I have spent most of this summer season messing with it, and it does require alot of work to get it right. I have stock springs that I have cut down, and shimmed properly to give me the static pressure that works best. So far, I can throw the clutch and run mid 1.5's on a ok track(At 60")...in the heat. Hopefully, when it cools down alittle and I can get to a good track...I can lower those to low 1.5's. I am also ~230 suited...no lightwieght here. As for clutch wear...it still blues up the steels evey couple trips to the track. When trying to launch this agressively, its gonna happen....especially with it setup to throw the clutch leaver.
Chris
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kzz1
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posted October 01, 2003 04:20 AM
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Cmarsh93z
Novice Class
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posted October 01, 2003 10:22 AM
I have a multistage in my busa right now. Have the soft springs, 60 inch bike, and I throw the clutch, and get 1.53s with stock motor. I just put in a new clutch pack and some 84mm pistons. I hope to see 1.49s @ 60inches. The biggest deal with the zx12 short bikes so far with the multistage is getting the static pressure right so you can throw it and get a good 60'. Me and Cmarsh93z have been working with MTC trying to find a set of springs that will work good. Rickey is using a multistage in his 12, and is obviously having good luck. 8.39 @ 175  60inches
Nick
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entropy
Moderator
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posted October 04, 2003 10:58 PM
Nick,
I have just gotten the MTC 2 stage, and the directions say use the OEM springs. Any comments on that. I know you are fiddlin' with the multistage, butvmaybe there is a similarity with the 2 stage???
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Cmarsh93z
Novice Class
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posted October 07, 2003 07:19 AM
why did you get a 2 stage? may I ask?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 07, 2003 03:07 PM
I got the 2 stage because my bike launched fine with Muzzy clutch and 10" arm (1.45-1.48's), I just want it to lock up when the mph gets "up there", and to cut down on clutch wear (hopefully).
Also, i'm gonna run the top end shootout on 10/25-26, and don't want any top end cluch slip, so I installed the 2 stage today.
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