ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted June 05, 2003 03:18 AM
WHY MY MOTOR FAILED (MY OWN STUPID FAULT)
Finally found out why my engine failed and to be honest it's quite embarassing. The only reason I'm sharing this with you guys is to prevent anyone of you doing it in the future.
Firstly the cause of the damage was oil starvation (hense why my oil light came on prior to me grinding to a halt). The reason the oil light came on was due to the oil screen in the oil pan being clogged up. Clogged up with what you ask. Black sludge shit. Why black sludge shit you ask. Because I had got into the habit of spraying a small amount of oil into the clutch case between runs to cool the pack down. Problem was the oil I was spraying into the case was different than that of the semi-synthetic oil I was using in the motor. When the two oils mixed they produce a thick black sludge which I also found in the clutch case. Result was devastating. Bearing failure destroyed and wrekced all four rods plus crank. One piston cracked plus barrel cracked. The only thing I salvaged was my head and tranny.
I hope someone learns from this fuck-up.
Ninja Missile
  
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Lorcan
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted June 05, 2003 04:08 AM
One person already has 
Thanks for sharing!
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810cc - 211mph: www.750turbo.com
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted June 05, 2003 06:07 AM
what kind of pistons? I have some extra.
MM
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted June 05, 2003 07:36 AM
I have some pistons too.....ENTROPY needs that head if it is for sale!!
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RED NINJAS RULE!!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted June 05, 2003 12:15 PM
Good info...
I probly have some STOCK pistons as well...and can also get a couple of 1270 pistons if needed...
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted June 05, 2003 05:23 PM
Wow! I've never heard of different oils causing sludge like that. I change brands of oil like I change underwear and I've never had that problem (yet). My new 1278 had under 100 miles and has had 3 different brands of oil in it already! Trying to find one that will make the clutch racket go away.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 05, 2003 05:55 PM
My question is why would you use a different oil? How long between Oil changes! Are you sure that was not the friction material turned to dust and mixed with the Oil?
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted June 05, 2003 07:50 PM
friction material?!?!?!? Hmmmmmmmmm. :-/ Interesting Vincent.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 05, 2003 08:59 PM
yeap that was my first thought.
I add whatever is handy when oil is low.
Never heard of this. But i have seen several
oil pickup with clutch fiber chocking them.
How many clutch packs have you burned?
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted June 05, 2003 09:34 PM
did it spin the main bearings? If not would you sell the complete blown engine? PM me if so or email me.
doug@spencercycle.com
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted June 06, 2003 03:16 AM
Yeah, I've used different brands of oil too but this was the first time I actually sprayed a different oil directly into the clutch case between runs. The two oils mixed together produced a black gunge and in answer to Vincents question: Yeah, I'm sure there was tiny bits of clutch material in with the gunge that contributed to the blockage.
My advice is NEVER spray oil directly into your clutch pack between runs. That pack gets boiling hot and It's best just to let it cool down on it's own.
I have a new A2 motor now
Ninja Missiel
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted June 06, 2003 03:46 PM
I am not sure that your conclusion is correct. If "spraying" hot clutches caused the problem, then the oil in the motor is still exposed to hot clutches while the engine is idling. Sludge is more the result of oil being used too long and getting cooked. Not the combination of brand names. Also if it got to your crank then what about your cam journels and everything thing else that needs oil. I see you have a new motor, but if you remove your oil fill cap while the engine is running the clutch is getting plenty of oil to cool it especially with the clutch hub mod cause it will spray out the hole.......I know cause i put my cap on loose one time!!!
1)How often did you change your oil?!
2)Sounds more like clutch fiber build up?!
3)Did run the bike with the oil level low in the site glass as advised by Muzzy?! (Bad advise)
4)What about your oil filter?!
There are a few chemist on this site, does the mixing of different groups of oil cause a chemical reaction to form sludge???
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 06, 2003 03:50 PM
Are you saying that you used the same weight of oil but different brand? Or was one a synthetic and one regular, but same weight? Or were they different weights all together?
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 06, 2003 08:05 PM
i have put cheap mapco oil in with mobil1 synthetic.
Oil change was coming up and it was low.
My theory is that any oil is better than no or low oil.
Hope you don't mind me saying, but i don't think that is
the real problem.
How many clutches have you burned ?
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted June 07, 2003 03:38 AM
I've burnt up more clutch packs than I care to remember but that motor had new oil and filter every 3 months at least. The oil I srpayed into the clutch pack was regular oil and I use semi-synthetic oil in the motor
Ninja Missile
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 07, 2003 07:38 AM
it's clutch fiber!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 07, 2003 11:57 AM
quote:
it's clutch fiber!
BINGO!! With what you said, I would take the oil pan off every 2 clutch paks and clean the pan and screens. The Oil filter cannot clean what it does not see! By pouring the oil in directly, may have hurried the process because it did not allow the normal coating of everything in the Clutch Case. #2, the Clutch does not "Ride" in oil on the new bikes, Oil is transferred through the clutch assemble and then back to the pan. Muzzys Clutch allows more oil to flow through the clutch for more cooling and faster flow! (My Theory and I can be 100% wrong, but I do not think so because I had older bikes where the clutch assembly "DID" Ride in oil and foamed the Hell out of it and created a lot of Drag in the process!
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted June 09, 2003 04:59 AM
I get what your saying Vincent and have to agree with you to a point but I still think spraying the regular 10W-40 oil into the clutch case was the major factor. I just wish I could have taken some pics for you all to see after I pulled that clutch case off. The oil\sludge inside was BLACK and the fibers were fried beyond belief. I think the debris from the clutch fibers mixed with the sludge and clogged the oil screen in the belly pan.
The reason I dont believe it was the clutch fibre debris alone is this: Last year I replaced my tranny after 30k miles and numerous clutch packs and the oil screen was in perfect shape. I changed it anyway but the thing was clean as a whistle. Go figure that one out!
Just for the record I use Silkolene Pro 4 15W-50 in the motor.
Ninja Missile
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 09, 2003 03:21 PM
I agree with you about it not being 100% the problem! WHAT WERE YOU USING ? ND-30??
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