Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
|
posted May 10, 2003 09:46 AM
 Edited By: Zhooligan on 10 May 2003 10:48
Well I can say that neither Swfts or mine are Falicon cranks. No failures here. And I know of five other 1361's that are not Falicon and they are all running trouble free. The only failure I have seen is a rod bolts breaking on a 1270 and the rod bearings failing on a stocker that was not maintaned, the guy didn't do an oil change and eventually the oil light came on and the bike started losing power.
And if you want a Falicon crank then send your crank to them. It's not as if Muzzy has stroker cranks laying on the shelf. You send them your crank and 6 or so weeks later you get your crank back. Muzzy sells you a kit. You can source the parts yourself, or buy the 1270 kit and send your crank out or go with the full meal deal from Muzzy.
I can tell you this that Falicon does not have a perfect record with the ZX12 either. BUt they are the 800 pound gorilla in the crank business. They have the most advertising etc.
I am confused about the monstor concerns here. How many failures are we talking about? We are talking about in at least one case the wrong year crank being installed in an engine, and how many other failures? And under what conditions? There are all kinds of philosphies here about break in. Run it like you race it right out of the box, 250 easy miles, ring it out at 400 miles, etc.etc. It would be interesting to see how many failures of the few that have actually occured have occurred on engines broke in using the beakin procedures recommended by the Factory.
Even the Factory race engines are broke in on engine dyno's before they are shipped to the team. The engines built for racing have life expectancies of less then 350 miles. And oil consumption is calculate in liters per x miles. In that 350 miles we are talking the cranks and cases are devestated.
But back to your concern, if Falicon is your choice send your crank to them. But don't make that decision based on an assumption that Falicon's cranks are perfect they arn't.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
  
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted May 10, 2003 12:47 PM
Sometimes people freek...when they see how many times I clean parts/hands when I'm building a motor...
ANY crank I install...is cleaned (parts washer/SimpleGreen/air-hose/water-hose AT HIGH PRESSURE...yes...I GET WET) NO LESS THAN 3 times...
Sorry...too dang busy to go any further right now...
|
supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
|
posted May 10, 2003 08:12 PM
I understand what your saying ZHooligan. However Doug told me I did infact have an 02 crank. My box that it shipped in was an 00-01 stickered box. By the way, you send them your parts and they send you a kit. Everyone I know has not waited 6 weeks. You just call up and order one and they send it out when they receive your crank and cylinder. They already have kits made up. They did not build off of the crank I sent them.
Doug was also wanting to get my receipts to see what kind of timeline I had gotten my kit at. Kinda seems like maybe there was a problem with a few around the same time or something. I heard mention of a certain batch from blah, blah, blah. Not real sure. Maybe they had someone else doing their cranks and noticed problems then. I dont know. But Doug is all over it and is going to let me know as soon as he gets some of my parts!!
If there was a problem I am sure they caught it after one or two runs. Nobody is perfect no matter how hard you try. I have purchased 10's of thousands of dollars of products from muzzys in the past years. I have been totally satisfied with them. This is something we will just have to figure out and I think that Doug and Muzzys is doing just that.
____________
02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
|
Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
|
posted May 10, 2003 08:36 PM
Well thats good to see that Muzzy actually has some cranks in stock. The 4 ZX12 strokers I have been involved with all occurred when Muzzy did not have cranks in stock.
Personally I like sending the rods with the crank to the crank builder.
It would be interesting to know how many 1361s there are out there.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted May 11, 2003 08:12 AM
Zhoo, that's exactly the questions i'm asking.
How many out there?
How many had trouble?
when?
Who did the crank?
The cranks are not breaking so the stroke is not the problem.
It is a rod journals, or oiling problem. Maybe they need extensive cleaning!
I said IF falicon is the premier crank builder, that's what i want.
Because I'm not a pro-builder i must trust my part to be quality
parts which require little or not mods to install. If mods are required
i need to know up front.
Kcadby are you doing ANY mods to the crankand or bearings?
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted May 13, 2003 10:31 AM
NOPE...none...
|
RobMuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
|
posted May 16, 2003 11:32 AM
We have done welded stroker cranks for many years and many different models. If the crank is straight and the journals are round and to size and the surface is the right finish, then the crank is done properly. That is what would be looked at in regards to warranty etc. The maximum that can be stroked is decided by how much must can be ground off the back side of the journal before it becomes week. We have seen cranks break in allmost every model we have done except the ZX-12. We are not aware of any welded ZX-12's that have broken. We have had a few customers that have had rod bearing failures. Some of these customers have had repeated rod bearing failures. Rod bearing failures are caused by lack of lubrication or dirty lubrication. The crank remanufacturer is not responsible for either of these things. The crankshafts that we sell are guarenteed to be straight, ground to our spec's.,and micro polished. We have not found any crank that has failed these requirments.
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted May 16, 2003 03:20 PM
Thanks Rob,
That's what i thought, but i have seen the repeated rod bearing failure.
The engine was a low mileage good running engine when the 1361 KIT
was installed by a very good mechanic. When the same rod goes down
twice it's time to find a good reason. other rod bearing look good.
good cases. new rod, new bearings, only thing left is the crank.
MAYBE stroker cranks need extra washing, i don't know, i'm just tring to find out before it's my motor.
If i do a 1361, i'm washing the color out the crank.
4-6 hrs flushing each side in the parts washer.
|
BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
|
posted May 16, 2003 08:07 PM
just remember to treat the cause, not the symptom on engine failures... 
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted May 16, 2003 08:52 PM
What do you think is the cause ?
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted May 17, 2003 11:01 AM
Edited By: kcadby on 17 May 2003 12:03
ninja12...
You need to be careful about leaving the crank in the parts washer...
IF your solvent has ANY sediment/junk/ "stuff" in the solution...it will "collect" in the oil passages over time if you leave it in the washer with the washer running
IMO...it's best to parts-wash it while putting your finger over the open holes (try jabbing a wire and or a bottle brush through the oil passages also), simple green it, then SPRAY IT with the water hose...REPEAT this procces as many times as it takes to not see ANYTHING (other than your cleaner/water) come out of the passages...THEN DO IT AGAIN...at LEAST one more time...
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted May 17, 2003 11:07 AM
ALSO...look at the clutch-drive-gear closely...the last one I did had quite a bit of metal grindings STUCK in between the teeth...I'm talking...the plastic brush in the parts washer didn't break it loose...I had to wire brush EVER TOOTH of the gear to clean it all off...
|
supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
|
posted May 17, 2003 09:02 PM
Well mine was pumping oil no problems. I was there when it was taken apart. I know it was not the clutch as I put a brand new muzzy in it when we built it.
The motor was primed properly and when it was fired the oil light immediately went off.
Rob, I have sent the bad rod to Doug for inspection, you should have gotten it by Friday or Saturday.
____________
02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted May 17, 2003 10:32 PM
Thanks kevin. I'll keep that in mind.
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted May 17, 2003 10:41 PM
Edited By: ninja12 on 17 May 2003 23:43
|
ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
|
posted May 18, 2003 07:16 AM
Ninja12, you are asking a question that includes a "FEAR" component without saying,,,"I am afraid and i don't know how to get un-afraid"!!! Everyone that "BUILDS" motors, (NOT simply ASSemble) understands that 80% of problems are solved during the building process. Ninja, you have a building problem and if you bought a Muzzy crank, then a possible quality issue. Yes, i am aware of one guy that bought 2 1361 kits and both went bad. I have my questions about his "ASSembler" also though!!! If the same journal kept going out or went out the first time and the replacement rod, or bearing or whatever was not plastigaged in several positions or the crank was not send out to be "CHECKED" (very cheap) could be done by any machine shop with a micrometer for true radius of the journal. Then the owner/ASSembler is lacking in the mind. It is very easy to clean motors so they are free of garbage. The burrs and stuff is generally so small that to have a big discussion about burrs is a joke!!! You can use a small rat tail file and one stroke with the file and prestoooo!!! no more burrs and then clean with your finger. The issue here is the lack of measuring the bearings properly and check the full radius for freedom before install. Would i buy a Muzzy crank or piston kit?!?! HELL NOOOOO!!!! I don't like the quality and the lack toward customer service. Then I just read by Zhooligan they are going to offer a bigger kit.......If you ever compare the work with other crank companies, you will see. My cranks come back hardened, nitrided, micropolished, balanced to .001 end to end and the counter weights are painted. I said all that to say that there are reasons why some motors last and others don't!!!
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted May 18, 2003 07:06 PM
The crank got hurt both times and had to be repaired.
You can bet you last nickle that it was plastigaged
across each journal.
I have another question, unrelated
if the 2000 and 2002 cranks other than weight,
why would the difference not be detected during the plastigage process.
I remember kevin saying that if after market rods were used with the
2002 crank you must use 2000 bearings.
care to explain?
|
HITMAN
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
|
posted May 18, 2003 07:39 PM
IS THERE ANYONE WITH 2002 RUNNING CARILLO RODS ,AND IF SO WHAT BEARINGS DO YOU USE 01 OR 02.
____________
X
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted May 20, 2003 02:57 PM
01 bearings
Hitman...that is...unless Carrillo has changed the rods since the last motor I built...I told them about the difference in the "newer (02) rods"...
The "Tabs" on the bearings are a different width...it's easy to see if you look at the rods/bearings side by side...
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC