ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 05, 2003 11:34 PM
Poll Question:
MUZZY CRANK PROBLEMS?
If you have or know of someone with a muzzy crank
let's see how they are holding up.
If you had problems did muzzy correct it, how?
Poll Results:
 0 votes (0%)
Stoker had problems between 1000- 5000 miles
4 votes (27%)
Stoker had problems less than 1000 miles
0 votes (0%)
Stoker had problems after 5K miles
11 votes (73%)
Stoker had no problems
  
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted May 06, 2003 05:49 AM
just get your stock crank stroked instead of spending 3500
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted May 06, 2003 06:41 AM
This is what I got out of mine, assembled by Lees Performance:
Dozens of +/- 200mph runs at Maxton
650+ 9 second (and many high 8 second) 1/4 runs
8,000 street miles
+/- 40 pounds of nitrous
It needs to come apart, likely because of a bearing failure. Oil analysis shows high lead content and it lost 50hp somewhere on the dyno so I'll let you know but overall I've been very very satisfied with my welded +4mm crankshaft from Muzzys, done by Falicon.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 06, 2003 07:06 AM
quote:
just get your stock crank stroked instead of spending 3500
3500 is for the billet; Muzzy price for 1361 is a grand (with yr crank)
Hey Nick, when are you gonna get that turbo going??
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted May 06, 2003 07:17 AM
Im gonna get turbo running soon. Just waiting on parts now....
I didnt read carefully i thought he was talking about billet. Whats up with your ride Karl? Any numbers?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 06, 2003 09:30 AM
No numbers yet, doing some street riding, breaking it in, AND putting a 10" arm on it. I damn sure can't get traction with my HPX on the street with the 6", it breaks loose on hard accel in 1st.
Should be back together this sat, but track is closed Sun, so it'll a week or better before I get it out and learn to ride again (as if I ever could... bahahahahahahahaaha)
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 06, 2003 10:03 AM
wouldnt a 10" arm just make that traction problem much much worse?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 06, 2003 11:30 AM
quote:
wouldnt a 10" arm just make that traction problem much much worse?
On the street, yep! Big traction problem w/6", only get worse with 10", but VERY cool rolling smokies are a given, eh?
On the track w/the 6" I had a wicked problem with the front end coming up in 1st (and 2nd if I wasn't flat down on the tank).
My plan with the 10" is to leave at 3000rpm +/- and pin it right outa the hole. We'll see...
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 06, 2003 11:52 AM
ah...gotcha...Musta misread what ya typed 
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted May 06, 2003 12:39 PM
Yeah, a 10 over arm should help ya out big time. Just get on the GAS fast!
Ive seen a 1270 10 over 12 run 5.60s in the 1/8th.
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Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 06, 2003 05:06 PM
5.60's???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yikes! I'll be happy w/mid 5.80's!!!!
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted May 06, 2003 08:08 PM
I want some 5.20s on the zx12 
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted May 07, 2003 05:33 PM
Hey, good luck with the turbo! Doug called me, my 1347 is ready to pick up, it's running sweet and the air shifter is dialed in!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 08, 2003 01:12 PM
Come on guys speak up.
Vote!
If you got good service out of the welded crank say so!
If not say so!
Let the fellow board members know what the furture holds.
Mad Mike, don't you have a stoker?
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted May 08, 2003 02:06 PM
I have never broken a crank. welds are great, had some other problems with my oiling system, and me learning how to build these motors.
Mad Mike
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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HITMAN
Parking Attendant
Posts: 4
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posted May 08, 2003 02:55 PM
MAD MIKE CHECK THIS OUT, HOW DOES 97 MILES 6K RPM OR LESS ON THE FIRST BREAKDOWN .#2 ROD BEARING SPINS.ALL OTHERS WERE FINE.THE ROD WAS OK BUT I REPLACED IT ANYWAY.MUZZY INSISTED THE ENGINE BUILDER SET THE CLERANCE WRONG. IGOTTA SAY THIER CRAZY THIS GUYS GOT MORE ENGINE BUILDING EXPERIENCE THAN THEY HAVE GOT GOODPARTS.NEVERTHELESS THE MECHANIC SPENT A$1000.00 ON ATOOL JUST TO MORE ACCURATELY DIAL IN BEARINGS.AFTER THE SECOND INSTALL THE BIKE WENT 180MILES (BREAKIN) AND SHUT OFF .WE DISSAMBLEDTHE MOTER AGAIN TO FIND THE SAME PROBLEM #2 ROD BEARING HAD SPENT. ISENT THE CRANK TO MUZZY and they gave me therunaround,toomuchnos,itook thecrankbal out,finally they said theenginebuilder didnt throughly clean thecrankbefore installing it. kissmyass IF YOU GOTMONEY TO THROW AWAY SHOP WITHEM$
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Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted May 08, 2003 03:38 PM
So what happens when you buy your next stroker crank and it it is built by the same source Muzzy used?
What does your engine builder say the problem is? Other then the "crank is bad", what is wrong. Has it been machined wrong? out of tolerances? Not round what? Is the oil passages blocked with shit from the machining and welding so no oil is getting to that rodd bearing and thus causing it to spin?
As I have posted a time or two before on these types of situations, get your engine builder and the supplier on the phone in a three way conversation. You are the customer and it is up to the both of them to satisfy you. And misplaced loyalties don't help.
Regarding your comment that your mechanic even bought a special tool to work on / dial in the bearings, good for him, thats what he gets paid for! For years I charged $2,000 for 5 to 6 hours of work doing valve adjustments on Ferrari's and v12 Jags. Occassionally a customer would whine about what I charged, I reminded him what the dealer charged and reminded them nicely that all they had to do was find someone with my knowledge and special tools. They smiled and signed the checks.
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has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted May 08, 2003 08:32 PM
Well I found out that my crank was not done by Falicon. I called them up earlier this week and they walked me through some things. I dont know what all this means but one of the other members I talked to said his was not either after we looked for what Falicon had suggested. makes you wonder.
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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Zhooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted May 08, 2003 08:44 PM
Who told you that Muzzy had Falicon doing their stroker cranks?
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted May 09, 2003 04:54 AM
Hit man... wow dude, did you send the crank off and have it balanced? or checked out? and I dont care how many Harley's a mechanic has built, they dont even compaire to what we have going on inside of our 12motors! crazy, like I had stated my crank is fine I set it to APE to have it fly cut, and balanced, and they sent it back at a rate of .01 balanced to 14,000 rpm at a constant rate. man Kcadby cleaned one of his customers and he had to go over it 2-3 times to get every thing out and off of it. also what kind of oil were you using to breakin the crank and what level did you run it at? did you break it in? do you do wheelies? man there is alot of things that could have happened. and if #2 failed again? did they check the oil passages, did you make sure the #1 and #2 rods were both the same weight?. and finally what clearances did you mechanic use or have on all of the bearings? and I am not dogging you here I am trying to help you figure out what happened. oh and I have a very good friend/ mechanic tell me that the tick I had was nothing and go ahead and race/ride it, well the bent valve I showed him, he goes dude that sucks.... so you might want to get a second opinion.
Mad Mike
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 09, 2003 07:58 AM
Guy's let me say, This is not and should not be a MUZZY bash thread.
I don't care who make/sales a product, If it's not right
we should share our experience with the board.
I have and will continue to buy Muzzy products when the value and price
are right. They make a lot of nice stuff, some not so nice,
and I only want the good stuff. It was stated that the MUZZY lock-up
had a problem and MTC was a better choice, its your money .
That is what the board is for.
Muzzy gets a lot of free advertisement on this board when their stuff works, should we be quiet when it don't.
I think the 1270 is one of the best products available for the zx12.
Now we have a 36% failure on the stroker in the first 1000 miles.
It appears that you get a good one or you don't. you will know in the first 1000 miles.
36% do you feel lucky?
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 09, 2003 08:51 AM
 Edited By: ninja12 on 9 May 2003 10:38
kcadby , you appear to have your ducks in a row.
I know there is a lot of difference between a blueprinted motor
and a built motor. If I start with a 5k mile motor.
Tear it down.
Clean and debur all parts old and new.
Install the pistons double checking ring gaps.
Wash and install the original crank with stroke. (less chance of errors)
Plasti-guage all journals. and install new bearings on rods.
check valves
degree cams
No headwork and no rods. (almost doubles the parts bill)
Is there any reason this motor would not survive?
I know this is NOT a blueprinted motor, but neither is the stock motor.
This was my game plan and if you can tell me where i might improve the
odds i might go continue.
I'm not a professional builder but i have replaced a couple of stock cranks with no problems. A few top ends and rebuilt a few cars, so i'm not new to this.
I want to spend ~$2200-2500 , includes 1361 kit, cam sprokets and bearings. I don't have ~$1200 for headword ~$800 for rods or ~$1200
for a builder. I need to know if this can/should be done in my price range and SURVIVE. does a goal of 200-205 hp sound realistic.
Are there things that the stroker requires different from a stock crank?
Any other builders out there SPEAK UP!
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted May 09, 2003 01:46 PM
Sounds like a good plan to me, ninja 12. That's basically what I did except for a cam change and a little head work. I had both cranks at my house at the same time and each journal was exactly the same size. Mine was done by their first crank supplier, whoever that was. I reused all the old bearings which were in good shape. Rod clearance was .0015. Ring gap must be set, not checked. Only tool I didn't have was one to pull the alternator thingy on the end of the crank but I made one. I put roughly 6k on mine with lots(hundreds) of strip passes, a track day, and lots of hard mountain riding. Never a problem and never went less than 150mph at the strip!
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted May 09, 2003 02:44 PM
I contacted an Engineer at Falicon and was asking him about my crank and what I should do as far as repairs or what not. This was before I contacted muzzys. He asked me if I had the crank in front of me so he could ask me some questions. He told me where to look for a certain engraving, etc. He then said, "well we do some of muzzys cranks but not all of them. However you do not have one of our cranks". We then started talking about repair and cost options.
I am not bashing muzzys at all. I have spent over $10K with them in the past 2-3 years. They should just start cutting it out my check every year as I buy it as I can afford it. This is the first time I have had a problem with anything from them. However this is the first time I have went internal with any of my Kawi's. Everything I have bought from them in the past has been boltons, except for a zx9 piston kit, (I forgot).
Hey MadMike, I am the one you met at Bristol Dragway last year. I had just bought an 02 PMB 12R.
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 09, 2003 09:48 PM
Thanks krexken.
With so many failures i'd like to identify the common problem.
When different professional builder have problems , you have got to
think it's something going on that normal washing and plasti-gauge
don't catch. I'd bet anything that supraman's builder and my friends builder covered these basics. I'm beginning to think it is the crank supplier. How do you identify a falicon crank.
IF the cranks having problems are not from falicon, and falicon still does some of the cranks. HOW DO WE REQUEST A FALICON CRANK?
If that don't work maybe buy the 1270 kit and go straight to falicon for the crank service.
Just thinking out loud.
What do the rest of you think?
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