Zhooligan
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posted April 27, 2003 07:20 PM
Hope they make things right for you. I have to say to date I have been fortunate that I have had 7 stroker cranks / bikes over the years. All have been welded cranks and all of them had zero problems with the cranks.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
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future; -- Youth is forever.
  
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted April 28, 2003 05:54 AM
I compared mine with one of a buddies that Failcon did for him. Mine looks nothing like it. It was not lightened or polished, it was stroked, and it was not as shiny as mine around the rod journals. This is probably why the local shop is stating that they dont think it was coated and hardened. I didnt understand what they were saying until now.
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
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posted May 05, 2003 10:11 AM
Well I have some info for you guys. I faxed all of the receipts and information I had to Muzzys this morning. They were quick to get back with me on the situation. Doug actually called me right away. He said something that I did not think of. He thought that I may have gotten an 00-01 kit (I have an 02 ZX12R). I never thought about it as the only difference I knew about was the crank was heavier on an 02-03 model. I thought everything else was the same. I SPECIFICALLY remember seeing 00-01 on the box the kit parts came in. I know that for a FACT!!! However I knew that I had one of the first 02 kits and they probably just didnt have 02-03 stickers made yet. I immediately thought of the Power Commander issue where they were shipping PC3's and 3R's in PC2 boxes. I know as I went through that with my first 00 12R. Knowing all of this I thought it was no big deal. Well Doug says "Big deal"!!!! The rod journals are different and everything. Well everything came together after talking to him about this. It makes so much sense its not even funny! I am going to take some pictures of it and send them to him and see what happens from there.
I have to give them one thing for sure. I faxed them the info at 10:30am EST. Doug personally called me at 1:15pm EST. Thats like 9:15 their time. So far thats some good service!!!!
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 05, 2003 01:26 PM
A friend WAS having the same problem probem with an 02.
less than 100 break-in mile the FIRST time.
180 miles the SECOND time, with a new rod . #2 rod journal damaged both times all other rod and main journals clean.
Muzzy say crank contamination is the cause, and now crank can't
be repaired.
Please explain how one bad journal can ruin the whole crank? Unless it was trash from the beginning.
The builder is very experienced ,over 100 rebuilds , and called BS on MUZZY. What are the odds that an experienced professional builder would not wash the crank, and not plasti-gauge the same rod TWICE?
He had a cance to talk to MUzzY also. If talk makes you happy, muzy will treat you well. After the talk was over MUZZY DID NOTHING TO HELP HIM.
Maybe Robert S was right about them.
Anyone have a good STOCK 02 crank?
Doug feel free to step in at any time!
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supraman95mb
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posted May 05, 2003 05:51 PM
I did find that the crank I have is not a falicon one. I called them last week to try and get some estimates on repair to the crank just to know. They asked me to look and see if it was done by them. They told me where to look and what etching I was to look for. They told me I didnt have a Falicon prepped crank. Get your buddy to get ahold of me and I will get him to do the same thing and maybe we can find out if his was part of the same problem? When did he order his kit? Doug says that I probably have a 00-01 crank and I have an 02 bike. I know for a %100 fact that all of the kit parts were inside of containers that said "00-01" on them. I just thought it was because I was one of the first people to get the 02 kit and they havent started making stickers for them yet. Plust everything is interchangeable anyways.
I thought the only thing different was the Crank was heavier in the 02. Doug stated to me that the rod journals and everything are different. That made alot of things come together when he said that. I remembered the labeling on the box and everything. I think he hit it on the head!!!!
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 05, 2003 11:25 PM
He was concerned about that sort of stuff, and requested that his original
crank be worked. It was marked it to be sure.
The 1361 was installed late last season.
I don't know who does muzzys cranks, but he sent it back to them.
Maybe he should send it to Falicon to see if it really is ruined or is this a
case of Muzzy took the money and ran.
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supraman95mb
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posted May 06, 2003 08:52 PM
Well Bergie has a Muzzy crank done by Falicon. Mine is also a muzzy crank but it is not a Falicon (I called them and the told me where to look and what to look for, engravings). However my bike is an 02 and they sent me an 00-01 crank kit. Atleast thats where doug is going with this so far. Like I said earlier I remember without a doubt the individual packages saying "00-01" so this could be just a mistake on them sending me the wrong kit!
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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Zhooligan
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posted May 07, 2003 10:54 AM
 Edited By: Zhooligan on 7 May 2003 11:57
My question on this is where was the engine builder in all of this? My engine builder measures and fits everything prior to assembly. And on more then one occassion over the past 30 plus years, my excitement over the appearance of a project getting close to completion came to a screeching halt/delay due to something being wrong, out of tolerance, un acceptable finish etc. If the crank for the 02 is different then the 01 is it a dimension that should have been noticed during assembly?
I wouldn't let your engine builder off of the hook quite yet. My philosphy is there are assemblers and engine builders. The average local Kawi dealer employs assemblers. They merely take parts out of box and install them. High Perfornce Engine Builders; fit, match, measure, clean, debur etc. In my experience, a real engine builder is part mechanic, part artist and part musician, with the work ethic of a IRS auditor!
If Muzzy sent the wrong crank they should give you the right one, but I would be looking at the shop you paid your hard earned money too to make things right. Mike Velasco has built many a high performance engine for me over the years. On occasion I have been frustrated on the amount of time taken. But when I have watched the process and seen the shear amount of work expended in measuring pistons, rods, bearings, journals, the run out of this and that, gear over lap you name it. All of the parts that have been sent out to be stroked, balanced, superteched, shot peened, undercut, etc. are inspected and mesured by MIke regardless. I have seen pistons returned, on one occassion three sets of pistons sent back because he didn't like the taper or finish or appearance. I have come to appreciate the difference between a Factory Works Engine builder and a mechanic.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted May 07, 2003 03:49 PM
I saw Mike at Daytona this year. He still looks the same 20 years later when I was at the speedway! I Plan to send him a set of stacks to play with for a while!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Zhooligan
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posted May 07, 2003 04:15 PM
When you talked with Mike at Daytona you also met Dave (skinney guy with glasses!) who was with Mike working on the Dream Team. Dave is the guy you spoke with about your Ohlins!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 07, 2003 05:33 PM
Zhoo...I'm glad you have an appreciation of the work/TIME it take to "BUILD" a motor 
It would be SOOOOOO much easier/FASTER to just throw a bunch of parts together!!!
I just ran a little piss-ant CB750 motor that I BUILT on the dyno for the first time...I spent over an hour last night just looking over, deburing, sanding sharp edges, rounding sharp edges of valve pockets...yada...yada...on the CUSTOM MADE...JE pistons we had made for this silly little Honda because no-one makes a kit for it and...SHE wanted us to build it...
CUSTOM FREEKIN MADE 2mm-oversized valves also!!! 
ANYWAY...This little puppy is going to be COOOL (for a NightHawk 750)...I only took it to 7,000 so far and it already has 8+lbs more torq than max (@-7900) before...
Sorry I got off track...
Just glad you posted about what actually goes into BUILDING motors ...
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Zhooligan
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posted May 07, 2003 05:38 PM
Your welcome.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
Posts: 212
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posted May 07, 2003 07:03 PM
Edited By: supraman95mb on 7 May 2003 20:05
Well Z I know exactly what you are saying. However we race several of these motors in the Dwarf cars and we turn them to 11k for 2-3 hours with no problems. I know for a fact that the setup was plasticguaged because I was watching him do it and learning how it worked!!!!!!!! I just think its funny that they (Specialty building shop not a dealership) have built so many race motors (for 20+years) its not even funny and this is the first time of a failure as far as I can remember. The owner oversees everything and he is close friends with me and my father as they have been really close friends since high school. They took the extra steps into making sure that my bike was done even better. (Which is extreme in their case). The guy that built my motor built the winning dwarf car motors for the last few years so he knows what he is doing. Last year he built a motor and they came and brought the car. They bolted it in, fired it up and drove it around the parking lot. They then drove to Florida that night, tuned it and won the race the following day. Thats like a 20 mile breakin.
I know what your saying Z but I have seen so much wild stuff come from there that is still running today. TOns of built Z1's as the owner was a drag racer himself. He also has a really old Z1 that he fabed a turbo kit for back in the 70's or something. We dynoed it the other day and it put down 275rwhp. I think it has a carb mounted to the turbo, weird I think but hey thats like 20 year old technology.
Well atleast his runs!!!! I am broke and walking right now!!!
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 08, 2003 01:49 PM
superman...
JFYI...I was NOT even hinting in my above reply that...your guy doesn't know what he's doing
Just glad that some people...do know what it takes to blueprint a motor right...
I had a guy here in Jax (and his friends) that FREEKED when he ran 5.70s the first time his motor (that I built) went to the track...
I was like??? are you serious!?!?!? I would NOT let one of my motors even be SEEN at a track unless it was READY TO RUN SOME #s...
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted May 08, 2003 02:21 PM
Zhooligan, i believe you have simply plagerized one of my previous post that was directed at you!!! EWWWW that makes me mad!!!!! 
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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Zhooligan
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posted May 08, 2003 02:31 PM
Excuse me? Not a chance. I have been as verbal and loud as anyone on this board and any about this stuff. And I certainly don't need to plagerize anyone's thoughts! I have enough problem with my own especially with the extra voices in my head!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 08, 2003 06:48 PM
Ye-up...CRAZY like a Fox...
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supraman95mb
Expert Class
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posted May 08, 2003 08:27 PM
You guys are a trip. Hey Kcadby can you email me. I have a question I want to ask you.
Thanks
supraman95mb@hotmail.com
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02 Stroked 12R
95 Supra Single Turbo 750+ hp
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 09, 2003 09:40 PM
me too.
Thanks in advance
ninja12
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 10, 2003 12:41 PM
As soon as I can...
STILL don't have my mail hooked back up yet...working SO MANY freekin hours here (yes I DO spend a few minutes a day ON HERE) I just haven't had the energy on my day off to do what I NEED to do...for myself...
NOT a big deal to call me here at work if needed...
(904) 389-1177
9 to (6---I WISH) eastern time...ask for Kevin
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