KZScott
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posted May 31, 2012 06:14 AM
Carrillo rod bolt tq
I was able to buy these at a great price, so I decided these were going in my turbo 12 motor. I ordered a rod bolt stretch gauge, but I would like to confirm the proper stretch spec, and DNE?
These were originally Karls, and jumped around a few times before ending up here 
one more question, some of the bolts have A04 and some have A06, is this just a batch number or do they require different stretch/tq?
thanks
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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saltwheels east
Novice Class
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posted May 31, 2012 06:29 PM
why not just call carrillo , to know for sure?
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franey
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KZScott
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posted May 31, 2012 06:46 PM
because Jim posted awhile back about a new publication (the dne?) being incorrect, and I want to know what is the right way from guys with first hand experience. Karl could probably do these in his sleep by now
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 31, 2012 09:26 PM
Just as important as DNE is minimum torque at max stretch. I had a set of bolts fail before installation because they were only torquing to 20 lb-ft at .0055" stretch.
The official bolt install guide can be found here http://www.cp-carrillo.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=aVLyichF4%2fs%3d&tabid=76. However, I don't see your head marking listed. You might have to call CP/Carrillo and see what they recommend.
Then again, if you don't know how many cycles you have on these bolts, the safe thing might be to replace them.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted May 31, 2012 10:45 PM
Shane Burton has the complete history on that set (#3) of rods.
I noted stretch/tq each time i installed em, along with the spec.
At work I still have the 8,000 line spreadsheet detailing all my Zx12 mods filed somewhere,
but i'm not at work :-(
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Shane661
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posted June 01, 2012 01:31 PM
quote:
Shane Burton has the complete history on that set (#3) of rods.
I noted stretch/tq each time i installed em, along with the spec.
At work I still have the 8,000 line spreadsheet detailing all my Zx12 mods filed somewhere,
but i'm not at work :-(
In OH now, but I can check for you when I get home, Scott...
Shane
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KZScott
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posted June 01, 2012 01:50 PM
Thanks guys
Tim, are you still in recovery mode?
Karl, hope youre healing well
GL at the mile Shane, thx
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted June 01, 2012 03:08 PM
Yes. It's my first week back at work after three months off. I rode the SV to work on my first day back. My loving wife was not impressed with my decision. Like the hookers in Bad Santa, I probably won't be walking right for about a year, but I hardly notice any discomfort while riding.
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted June 02, 2012 04:53 AM
Scott, you have the sps bolts before they switched vendors to A1. The old sheet had different values.
The issues is that the new bolts from A1 have a DNE of 30 ft lbs but at 30 ft lbs you wont even get .004" stretch. On a new set of bolts you will need about 43 ft lbs to get .0055" stretch which is (according to Carrillo) way over the DNE torque. hey have been told about this several times for a few years and they refuse to correct it.
Each time you re-tighten the bolts the torque will be lower to get them to .0055" stretch. This is because the threads are burnishing in and also the bolt is getting worked.
My general rule of thumb is if the bolt stretches to .0055" with less than 38 ft lbs of torque then toss it.
Make sure you use the supplied anti seize every time you tighten them. Make sure you put some under the head o the bolt as well as the threads.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 02, 2012 12:38 PM
Jim is that why my bolts to replace the sps carr are marked s5-n-001 ??
can't get any straight answers if these are same grade replacement or a lesser bolt
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entropy
Moderator
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posted June 02, 2012 05:11 PM
quote:
Make sure you use the supplied anti seize every time you tighten them. Make sure you put some under the head o the bolt as well as the threads.
x10!!!!!!
this is critical to get reproducible results.
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KZScott
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posted June 02, 2012 06:26 PM
thanks guys. glad to see the both of you are recovering!
Ill be checking to see if the local engine rebuild shop has the proper lube. They have CP/Carrillo stuff in their supercharged stang, so they should have it, or at least molly paste. I need to drop off cams for adjustable sprockets (hopefully monday) anyway.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted June 03, 2012 05:05 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 3 Jun 2012 13:09
The new "better" more expensive bolts for the Carrillo rods that are made by A1 are stamped SM8. Any replacement bolts you buy should say SM8 on them if they are metric bolts. Dont get the standard HM8 bolts. Disregard the DNE torque on the sheet below from Carrillo's site.
The DNE torque should be more like 45 ft lbs Because you will need about 43 ft lbs to get the stretch to .0055".
If you have an OLDER set of Carrillo rods you will need the 5/16" bolts not the metric 8mm bolts. When they switched over to A1 as the bolt supplier they switched to 8mm.
They used to supply a tube of Loctite Anti Seize with all sets of new rods, but now they have there own brand of lube supplied with the rods.
DO NOT USE MOLY PASTE !!! You Must use the lube that any manufacturer recomends. The proper torque values are based on that lube. In this case you are going by bolt stretch anyway, but just keep that in mind.
http://www.cp-carrillo.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=aVLyichF4%2fs%3d&tabid=76
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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posted June 03, 2012 09:27 AM
Jim, Im a little confused, this is on your link.
All bolts should be lubricated under the heads as well as on the threads. We recommend the bolt lube included, or as an alternative, molybdenum
base paste mixed with engine oil.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted June 03, 2012 06:55 PM
Scott, a mix of 10% moly paste and engine oil is what the factory recommends to use.
Straight moly paste isn't good.
Stick with the carrillo lube or in a pinch use the mix.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted June 03, 2012 07:02 PM
Thanks!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 03, 2012 10:58 PM
Yes thanks Jim, and Scott for starting the subject
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