RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted March 01, 2003 09:13 PM
PLUGS
CR9EKPA is a platinum standard heat range for the ZX12R.
I was told a standard CR9EK is a non-platinum, is this true?
Also where would I get these and CR10EK one step colder plugs?
  
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Cowboy
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posted March 01, 2003 09:56 PM
Bergie,if i looked at the pics of the plugs right I'd say your running lots of fuel and shouldn't need to go to the 10s
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Your Car Is Slow
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posted March 02, 2003 10:42 AM
Good question bergie...but im pretty sure they are platinum plugs.
The CR10EK plugs are available from ron ayers for about 6 bucks each.
Your plugs were insanely fouled....going to the 10s might not be your best option (unless you plan on leaning things out some or spraying more).
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lonniemac
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posted March 02, 2003 12:42 PM
the cr9ek are not platinum the pa letters at the end of ngk plugs mean they are platinum. the zx-12 manual say to use only the pa even though others fit because the resistance of platnium is diffrent from the original material. the use of others could cause idiling problems. i have used others with no problems. they only refer to idiling in the manual.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted March 02, 2003 04:05 PM
Thanks for the info Lonniemac, that it exactly what I was told, the "PA" plug is a designation for Platinum. Of course I knew that, since they came from the factory with those plugs and the new factory plugs were in a box labeled "Platinum Series".
What I needed was confirmation that the standard CR9EK is a NON-platinum plug, which won't retain heat and be as likely to cause detonation when using nitrous. Thanks for the confirmation!
Cowboy/YCIS- Yes I'm very aware my plugs are super rich. Up to this point I have been running my bike that way intentionally! Because I have not yet tuned the bike for nitrous! I dumped the extra fuel in the map to a level that I knew was safe and it has worked well.
The reason I'm considering swapping to a colder and moving to a non-platinum plug is.. as Vince Hill would say... "I have plans!" I will be testing and tuning with nitrous on the dyno and I plan to read the plugs not just look at air/fuel ratios. I will test CR9EK non-platinums as well as CR10EKs which are a step colder.
If all goes well wideband tuning using a NOS-brand #36 jet, I will step up the pill considerably, possibly adding a 2nd stage with a completely seperate source (bottle) with custom mapping. The second bottle is going to be used to prevent pressure drop on long runs such as for Maxton! We're working on developing a system that I can switch to another stage for just 6th gear, more on that later...
Thanks guys for the information!
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your car is slow
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posted March 02, 2003 06:14 PM
Eh...I always thought platinum was a much better conductor of electricity than copper was....hence it would allow more heat to pass to the ceramic insulation and cool faster...where copper being a worse conductor would retain more heat.
Although Id be more concerned with the heat range of the plug than the electrode material...as thats what has more impact on electrode temperature than anything.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted March 02, 2003 09:01 PM
I agree with what you said there, but I'll do some comparison and let you know the results. Ideally I want something that will run good in both situations, but I'm not about to sacrafice an engine to the cause.
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AnotherRedHead
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posted March 11, 2003 02:50 PM
 Edited By: AnotherRedHead on 11 Mar 2003 14:51
YCIS, that right there proves you are the biggest idiot on the planet.....platiunum plugs 
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your car is slow
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posted March 11, 2003 04:13 PM
You are really grabbing at straws here man.....did you actually go back through ever post in here just trying to find something borderline to attempt some sort of "revenge" for me making you look like a complete idiot on lab? Thats just plain sad 
lets hear your explanation on this one dipwad.
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MadMike
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posted March 11, 2003 05:05 PM
Electrical conductivity...... actually you guys will be suprised at what information that I have to say.
by the information that I have the best conductor would be Silver with a rating of 100.
so here goes some interesting information.
Silver = 100
Gold = 76.71
Copper = 97.67
Lead = 8.42
Mercury = 1.75 like a mercury switch at 60 deg F
Steel = 12.00
now for a few of the super high fi plug componets
Platinum = 14.43
Iridium = 13.52
Nickle = 12.89
this show's that the electrical condictivity of these items are not exactly like copper? does anyone know what the base material for these plugs are?
Mad Mike
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your car is slow
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posted March 11, 2003 07:06 PM
Very intersting info Mike!!
Would the same apply for heat disspiation?
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MadMike
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posted March 11, 2003 08:41 PM
from what I have seen with my resistive welding applications. they work very much in the same way. I am sure there are some differences? but very similar...
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your car is slow
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posted March 11, 2003 08:55 PM
Thats pretty nutty...why do the highest end conducting components (computer chips etc) use gold instead of copper? I thought about corrosion resistance..but arent most computer chips these days sealed?
Id think that since copper has so much better conductivity than gold...and cost significantly less (obviously) it would be used in the highest end products especially those used for mass production.
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wannabe
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posted March 11, 2003 09:47 PM
Edited By: wannabe on 11 Mar 2003 21:49
Using gold instead of copper in a silicon chip has nothing to do with conductivity. It has everything to do with the fact that copper diffuses into silicon very very easily and ends up ruining the chip. There are a gazillion other issues with copper that the folks in Silicon Valley are finally working out. Copper is now being used in the higher end (higher frequency) chips. On the other end of the spectrum, you may be surprized to find out that Aluminum is actually used more than gold in many silicon applications.
OK, I guess it's obvious that I know more about semiconductor manufacturing than I do about dragracing motorcycles. (Sorry, I didn't mean to bastardize the thread too bad.)
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your car is slow
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posted March 11, 2003 10:19 PM
hehe...nope...I enjoy learnin new shit 
I always thought gold was number1...I would never have guessed platinum was so far down on the chart.
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AnotherRedHead
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posted March 11, 2003 11:07 PM
Actually, my buddy calls me to the computer and asks, hey isn't this the dipshit that was fucking with you, and quotes your eh post as I laugh histericallly at your dipshittedness lol just kidding
Anyways, platinum plugs just don't work well with nitrous for some reason. i dunno why, never thought to ask, but its just a known fact in my biz....my guess is the conductivity since the spark needs to retain full concentration when lighting a gas such as nitrous. Saw a funny thing about a rent car some guys put nitrous on, put so much through it, didnt detonate and explode, it simply blew the spark out cause the ignition didnt have enough power to ignite such a dense mixture....
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lonniemac
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posted March 12, 2003 06:10 AM
the diameter of the material determines the amount of resistancy notice the iridium being 1.4mm platnium being 2.0mm . copper can not stand the heat, they would not use that. the ignition system needs less risistance to work more efficiently. thats why the manual say to use the platnium. the iridium has less resistance than the platnium.
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your car is slow
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posted March 12, 2003 07:06 AM
quote:
Anyways, platinum plugs just don't work well with nitrous for some reason. i dunno why, never thought to ask, but its just a known fact in my biz
Im still confused....I never said platinum plugs would work better...I was merely speculating on the conductivity and heat dissipation of them(and I was wrong...it happens...but I can admit a mistake)...Ive never run platinum plugs on any vehicle ive owned running nitrous (I just assumed the stock plugs in the 12R were platinum and I had no issue with them on my non-functional dry shot ).
When I replaced the plugs after upping the jets....the replacements were not platinum.
Id personally rather learn WHY they dont work as well (and this thread is doing that) instead of just taking the stance "hey..its just a known fact"....I enjoy learning new things....can never have too much knowledge.
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lonniemac
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posted March 12, 2003 10:16 AM
thats intresting. i was only sharing information that i got from a little research i did hoping it would help any one. to answer what you are asking i am not sure . maybe platnium doesn't like to function under anything more than normal gasoline combustion temps. i dont think the platnium is available in any other heat range by ngk the 9's are all i know of. whats actually happening to the plugs?
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Your Car is Slow
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posted March 12, 2003 11:29 AM
I guess this is my new thinking.
If platinum is such a poor conductor...would this mean the tip doesnt get as hot? or would that mean it gets significantly HOTTER than normal plugs as the resistance to the electricity generates more heat?
This would certainly explain why platinum plugs are a very bad idea when running spray....however how could platinum plugs achieve or advertise the same heat range as normal copper plugs if they indeed got "hotter" during normal use?
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lonniemac
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posted March 12, 2003 12:12 PM
no plugs are copper the deal from ngk is that the platnium has less resistance and will have 3 times the life under normal engine operation kawasaki nor ngk put the package together to run nitrous.
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Your Car is Slow
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posted March 12, 2003 12:40 PM
No plugs are copper? do huh?
How is it that platinum can have 3 times less resistance...but nearly 1/10th the conductivity of copper? Doesnt quite add up.
What am I missing here
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kingzx12r
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woo hoo
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posted March 12, 2003 10:52 PM
Actually it is general knowledge that platinum plugs should not be used with nitrous but it is because the electrodes are very small and have a tendency to break off with extreme heat and also have a smaller spark becuase of the same. In nitrous or blower applications it is general knowledge that a strong steady spark is better, usually not a factor ina light application like low boost or small nitrous. I have not had any problems with the platinum plugs on the smaller dry shots up to 60 hp but prefer to use a heavier elecrode plug on anything above 60 hp with about 200 bike with this kit out there I am realitivly confident you will have no problems, but you should check your plugs for burn regulary anyway it is easier to check a plug then replace a piston. Nitrous is as dangerous as the person using it IMHO.
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lonniemac
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posted March 13, 2003 05:31 AM
well spoken, thanks.
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posted March 13, 2003 06:49 AM
Ok...so the explanation is that the electrodes on platinum plugs are smaller and weaker than their copper counterparts? Thus allowing them to get hotter and brittle and hence contributing to premature failure during high compression/boost/nitrous applications?
Now I have a new research project to do
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