kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted February 01, 2003 05:12 PM
Meltdown (NO2)
Well...I've had 3-motors get hurt on the dyno and...ALL 3 have been Kaws  (go ahead SlowZuki guys...laugh it up  )
Dean's blew a head gasket with too much NO2 for stock studs and gasket, 1-ZX11 melted a rod bearing and now??? a local (Jacksonville) ZX12-70 with the Stealth NO2 kit Holed a piston AND torched the block
I didn't do ANY of the work on this bike accept for Mapping the Yosh-Box...
I ran the bike on the dyno months ago before the NO2 was installed and the bike only made mid 170sHP...since I didn't do any of the work I don't know why it was so weak for a 1270...After the Stealth System was installed he brought it back for mapping...it only made 177hp when I was done Mapping it...hooked up a 10lb bottle for HP-pulls and...killed the motor on the second pull
After seeing what it did to the piston and BLOCK??? I'm thinkin it for SURE had a problem with the fuel side of the NO2 system (installation? NOT DESIGN!)...
It hurt all four spark plugs, three pistons (2 were "minor injuries") and ALMOST torched a hole THROUGH the block/bore!!!
#1 bore was scored(looks like old injury) and...#1 and #4 piston have been tagging the head at the front for a long time(probably the reason it was weak)...
Oh ya...it only made about 237HP and 137Lbs on the first pull and 167torq just before it got hurt on the second pull...
The good news is...I will fix it right 
   
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted February 01, 2003 05:59 PM
Gee Kev.
How much IS "too much NO2" for stock studs and gasket????? 
Wow, only mid-170's on a 1270?!? Yikes! Sounds like a real horror story for the poor guy!
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted February 02, 2003 05:53 AM
Have you guys tested the stock studs for strength? TMH had the Busa stocks and Ape ones tested and guess what? The OEM Busa studs are stronger than the APE ones.
How much hp can these studs hold up too? I noticed APE has sets avaiable now.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted February 02, 2003 07:15 AM
I just ordered a set the other day.. hmmmm......
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted February 02, 2003 08:54 AM
I should add a little caveat to my blown head gasket - I had wired the ignition retard incorrectly, running the ground in line with the solenoids, as you would with a non-progressive system, and thus during the 1-sec ramp, the ignition was bouncing back and forth between 16 degrees retard and full timing as the solenoids stuttered. My mistake, and I'm very lucky I figured it out on the dyno, and only blew a head gasket. I added a relay and now run the retard directly off the prog box. It was an 80 shot BA.
That being said, after installing a Cometic spring steel 'oringed' head gasket (inner layer has .003 thicker ring around sleeves), installing APE cylinder studs, and putting back some timing (-8 degrees for the 80 shot, and -12 degrees for a little more), I still showed signs of gasket leakage. Nothing near as bad as on the dyno, when the motor filled with coolant -the bike still ran 160+, but I was losing coolant, and it should've been going faster. I just now had the block o-ringed and resurfaced, as I should have from the start, and this *should* eliminate the problem. Anyway, I think head gasket sealing is an issue with any motor running 75hp shots or more, although maybe not as much with nikasil blocks... I wonder if Wayne has problems. YCIS you might want to keep an eye on your coolant level, maybe have Kev do a leakdown.
I'm looking forward to hearing what the install issue was on the melted motor Kevin - the smartest thing this guy has done yet was to stroll into SMW..
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kingzx12r
Expert Class
woo hoo
Posts: 223
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posted February 02, 2003 06:12 PM
So far only problem with a 100 shot dry melted a piston with a little trip into rev limiter land other than that self inflicted wound two years on the other bikes original motors.
Never had a head gasket leak or problem so far touch wood heehee, but I think I have heard someone else they did, not I bike I did by the way.
I'm confident Kev will sort him out.
Wayne
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted February 02, 2003 07:48 PM
Still waiting on the results from the oil analysys on mine....going to run a leakdown test this week...gotta be up and running by thursday
I think im up to around a 75 shot now....bike still feels just as strong as its always been off the spray.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted February 04, 2003 10:08 AM
What's up Brian? I heard that you might have hurt something??? Did I miss a post/thread somewhere?
WELL...I found out why the motor was weak...The person that built it...hurt more than one piston when he installed the block...
The #1 piston was MISSING almost an inch of the lower oil-ring-rail!!!
When it was between the piston and block it pushed the piston against the cylinder and wore the piston so bad that it was rocking to the point of hitting the head, even though the deck height was safe...
I CAN'T believe it didn't SEIZE before it wore AND the ring broke and went6 into the bottom end...
Can't wait to see yer bike DEAN!!!
Of coarse we miss you at the track also well...me at Jax since I don't get to go to Gville...
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted February 04, 2003 11:39 AM
Eh...I was at jax last tuesday kev and after my second run I noticed the sight glass was completely full even with the bike leaned over on the kickstand.
I hadnt noticed any power loss..infact I ran 115 on motor alone during that run....but I thought better of running it again till I could get a better look at it at home.
Took the plastic off...inspected all around the valve cover and found no leaks...drained the oil and only noticed a few small white "wisps" or "streaks" that looked abnormal...but other than that the oil was thick (and black). Removed the oil filter and found black crud ALL the way around the ring where the filter gasket seals...never noticed that before in previous oil changes. *shrug
Sent a sample off for an oil analysis (who knows when that will get back).
Put on a new filter, more 15/50oil..and fired it up...ran like a top. Ill button it back up and take it out for a spin tomorrow and see hwo it feels. I also need to borrow a leakdown tester just for my own personal peace of mind...but I think itll be ok. Although it certainly might be a sign of things to come :/
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted February 04, 2003 12:05 PM
Weird Brian, I don't have a clue what would lead to a high oil level, except overfilling, or a blocked passage somewhere? Yikes.
Got the motor back in the frame last night...this morning actually. Man it's a PITA to wrestle it in there by yourself. Good to know I can, but F*CK doing that again.
Now of course it looks like rain this weekend. Unbelievable.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted February 04, 2003 01:08 PM
Doh..shoulda called....swappin motors is always better with a few friends around
I can stand around drinking beer and supervising like a champ
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ZHooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted February 04, 2003 02:28 PM
It is possible that you had a tiny air bubble or some kind of crud that was obstructing the site glass fill/drain hole. Otherwise you would have had to have had either fuel or antifreeze in the crankcase! And sounds like that was not the issue.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted February 04, 2003 03:52 PM
HMMMmmm...
Hope all is
OK Brian...
Dean...buy a ZX12 it's EASY to R&R the motor by yerself!!!
I actually prefer to do it without..."help???"
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted February 04, 2003 04:02 PM
Fuel is an option...as the oil smells of it badly (then again its always smelled like that) Although from what Ive seen of fuel mixing with oil...it makes it quite runny and thin.
This was not the case with what came out of the drainplug.
Ohwell..better to be overly paranoid than taking a chance.
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naturalbornkillar
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted February 24, 2003 05:24 PM
nobody mentioned fuel type used or what pump,pressure,etc
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted February 24, 2003 10:17 PM
For which part Natural? (this post is kinda old)
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FastBikes4Life
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted March 01, 2003 11:16 PM
kcadby,
I'm a "Busa guy" and I don't find this funny at all!! I wouldn't make fun of anyone having bike problems (just think about that cam chain tensioner ordeal the Hayabusas went through). I hope you get that bike back together and back on the road (by now you probably have). Keep it safe.
RW
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted March 05, 2003 12:59 PM
STILL waiting for the Muzzy Billet Block
I will take my time (as I always do) BluPrinting all the engine parts...
I'll be testing the NO2 nozzles/pressures BEFORE I spray the new motor also
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