glarior
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 20, 2011 08:30 AM
keeping the front tire down/break 200...
I am trying to figure out can do to keep the front tire down on my zx14. When I ran the Texas mile the best I was able to achieve 186.6. This, to me was a great first time! My bike is a 09' ZX14, full brocks titanium exhaust, PCV, bonneville pro then a dyno tune. I only weigh 150lbs with my gear on plus or minus a few. I have been thinking if I could go full throttle sooner and have a air shifter that I might break the 200mph. However, how can I keep the front tire on the ground?
I try to ride my bike every day I can so I don't want to take away the streetability. However, if there is something I can do for the Mile then revert to the street setup I would be interested.
Let me know your thoughts so I have an idea of what to be looking at. Most I have ever heard of was strapping down the front end but that has been a 50/50 mixed reviews.
____________
Texas Mile - 201mph
LTA - 221.18mph track record... for now
Mojave Mile - 213.2mph
Texas Mile Beeville - 210.5
http://www.youtube.com/user/horsepowerMafia
  
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 20, 2011 09:05 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 20 Jan 2011 19:17
You will get a lot more out of working on your tuck and overall bike setup than you will from going WOT in 1st gear. You probably have 10 or more mph left in the bike, overall.
I do feel some folks can pick up 1-2 mph with an airshifter, but only if you are not great at clutchless shifting. With an airshifter, and a pipe/pc3, and weighing around 235 lbs suited, I was able to run 190 mph on pump gas....without going WOT in 1st...and without a dragstrip launch. With a tune for MR9, you could pick up as much as 3 mph. You also might consider removing your airfilter. I have found this to add around 3 hp on the dyno when compared back-to-back with a BMC race filter.
Also, look into your gearing. If you are running stock gearing, consider adding 1 to 2 teeth to the rear sprocket size. This will give you quicker acceleration, but limit your top speed to low/mid 190's.
As far as breaking 200 mph on a stock motor 14...well, it won't be easy. I think there have only been 1 or 2 that have done it in the mile without having a good tailwind. My girlfriend Racheal has a bike similar to yours, but it had large throttle bodies and BST wheels. She went 193.99 on it while footshifting, but she was running MR9 fuel. It was her first event on that bike, and first event in over 14 months; I'm sure the bike has 4 or 5 more mph in it.
Her bike (with my loaner wheels, and a few other parts  ):
Here is a small thread detailing the mods to her bike.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=56851
My personal bike went 193.xx in June heat with diluted MR9, and me on it. My bike is very light though, so it puts my overall weight at near what your total would be. My bike was completely stock motor, but also running the same set of BST wheels as we had on hers last October.
My bike, as it sat back then:
The bike above did eventually go 211.97 mph with me on it in Loring, ME....with 1.5 miles to run, and very strong tailwinds. If you check out my thread, you can see where I have detailed most of the modifications made to the bike for dragstrip and LSR use, along with a lot of pics (875+) and videos. The thread is up to 70 pages now:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=40269
Two guys that are around your size have been in the upper 190's on their 14's, with stock motors, I believe. One is Zack Millholland, aka Madkawboy, and the other is his brother Chad. Dan Millholland, aka Oldkawboy, might be able to add something to that....they are his kids, and he is no LSR slouch himself!
Hope this helps, and welcome to the sport. 
Shane
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 20, 2011 10:35 AM
I agree with Shane about good tuck, critical.
We do not agree about the importance of getting out of the hole HARD.
Although he may be right in your case, if yr bike is no longer accelerating at the finish line.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 20, 2011 11:00 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 20 Jan 2011 20:02
I never said don't twist the grip.
What I am saying is that if you can pick up 10 mph overall, getting WOT in 1st is not going to be the bulk of it. Your tuck, technique, and overall bike setup are much more important. 
If you look at the acceleration rate of the bike on the big end of the track, let's for simplicity assume that the bike is gaining one mph for every 1 second, for this example. The bike is moving at 250+ fps at that point. So, even if you "lost" 100 feet at the beginning of the track, on your easy launch, it would only affect your final speed by less than 0.5 mph. If the bike is gaining less than 1 mph per second and/or moving faster than 250 fps, it would affect your final speed by an even smaller amount.
Of course, ymmv. And my math can be fuzzy at times. And either way, twisting the grip is fun.
Shane
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 20, 2011 12:12 PM
I don't see how strapping the front will get you from 186 mph to 200.
If you want to go 200 mph in the standing mile under normal conditions the cheapest way to do it would be a small shot of nitrous.
You might get lucky and ride a big tailwind to 200.
Your technique will improve with time. My first time at the Mile I went 185 on motor and 189 on spray. Now I can go faster than that nitrous run without nitrous. It comes down to practice and skill....and times with seat time.
Getting the throttle open earlier in 1st will help slightly, but even that won't get you the 14 mph needed.
In excellent condtions (meaning tailwind) if you had the bike lowered, piped, race filter, tuned with race fuel, geared perfect and some practice...yes....200 mph is possible....just not probable.
Good luck.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted January 21, 2011 08:17 AM
To answer your question, you can always fill the front axle with lead, and or a brick or two up front. Like the rest said, race fuel, good tune, WOT as soon as possible, good tuck, and a nice tailwind..............................but that's hard to come by at Texas. So just run first thing in the morning when it's the calmest. Just my idiots two cents.
Glad to have you on the boards and hope to see you at the Texas Mile. Be sure to pit with TFA, great bunch of folks with a lot of LSR know how.
Gary
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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glarior
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 23, 2011 01:22 AM
Great information! I like those BST wheels but the price... wow... just wow.
I have a better understanding and respect to what it takes to hit the 200+ mark.
Would changing the gear ration by subtracting a few teeth and then add a claimed 50 shot of nitrous help top end for breaking 200?
I know for sure I will use the air shifter. I really think I could have gotten more out of the bike but my shifting sucked! I tried various methods but the bike kept not wanting to shift in 4th, 5th and 6th. I would try to shift, and it wouldn't let me. I would pull the clutch in and try again... but no luck. The RPM would go from redline to 4k and I am already down the track going quick. Then it would shift into the next gear. turns out I was not letting the shift lever reset all the way down when I was trying to shift.
I felt like I tucked in really well compared to others I saw at the mile. When I was going I really did not feel any wind on myself. However, I am sure someone would be able to correct me on that lol.
I know October Texas mile the wind was crazy! That crosswind was just... just... harsh! I did a 183.3 run that day but I could feel the wind.
As for TFA, I kind of pitted with them in October. I left my house at 3am and drove my bike with my gear strapped to the back. Arrived right when the sun started to come up and ended up parking next to TFA. Great group of people. In fact, by Sunday I was running on fumes in the bike. I was trying to figure out how am I going to make it to the nearest gas station 15 or so miles away. Well, TFA gave me a full tank of fuel so I can make it to the gas station. I think that was the kindest gesture of the entire weekend and will never go unforgotten.
Thank you everyone for the input!
____________
Texas Mile - 201mph
LTA - 221.18mph track record... for now
Mojave Mile - 213.2mph
Texas Mile Beeville - 210.5
http://www.youtube.com/user/horsepowerMafia
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 23, 2011 07:09 AM
Edited By: shiphteey on 23 Jan 2011 15:11
I woulnd't go slapping nitrous and big gearing just yet.
You still have a lot to learn, in fact your first few events is where you'll see the biggest gains made mainly by your riding and setup.
Would a 50 shot and down a couple teeth in the back get you to 200+? Absolutely. And if your goal is just to go 200 by any means necessary than that would be the cheapest way to go. I'd recommend a smaller shot though but its your motor.
But if your goal is to become a better rider I would recommend forgetting about nitrous for a season. Go out there, tune, log, listen, learn. Not being able to shift your bike is a problem you need to sort out and using nitrous on the big end to compensate for missing shifts isn't the way to go about it. Missing shifts costs you more MPH than you may think. If you had multiple missed shifts in one run it could have added up to near 1/10 of a mile you cheated yourself out of in the mile when you stop and thinking about it.
Work on your riding, your setup, go out there and have fun, spend the money on some sprockets and after a year of running on motor nitrous may be the next logical step for your race program. The problem with Nitrous (and too much power in general) is that it hurts your learning curve. You make more mistakes, its harder to learn how to rider better and faster IMO. There's more potential wheelie/wheelspin you need to manage with more power.
Good luck either way.
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 23, 2011 07:09 AM
glarior,
it was good yakking with you in Oct, and i see you are prepping for March.
Registration opend today at 5pm!
I admire your pluck, getting up at 5am, riding down to Goliad, racing, then riding home.
In March you should hook up with a TFA-er, trailer it down. Cut down on stress.
As you have already discovered, TFA-ers are a looney but friendly buncha folks. I am pretty sure one of em lives near you and will share trailer space.
Where are you located, and remind this ole man what yr name is???
Karl
(you did get a TFA T shirt, didn't you?)
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glarior
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 23, 2011 11:49 AM
quote:
I woulnd't go slapping nitrous and big gearing just yet.
You still have a lot to learn, in fact your first few events is where you'll see the biggest gains made mainly by your riding and setup.
Would a 50 shot and down a couple teeth in the back get you to 200+? Absolutely. And if your goal is just to go 200 by any means necessary than that would be the cheapest way to go. I'd recommend a smaller shot though but its your motor.
But if your goal is to become a better rider I would recommend forgetting about nitrous for a season. Go out there, tune, log, listen, learn. Not being able to shift your bike is a problem you need to sort out and using nitrous on the big end to compensate for missing shifts isn't the way to go about it. Missing shifts costs you more MPH than you may think. If you had multiple missed shifts in one run it could have added up to near 1/10 of a mile you cheated yourself out of in the mile when you stop and thinking about it.
Work on your riding, your setup, go out there and have fun, spend the money on some sprockets and after a year of running on motor nitrous may be the next logical step for your race program. The problem with Nitrous (and too much power in general) is that it hurts your learning curve. You make more mistakes, its harder to learn how to rider better and faster IMO. There's more potential wheelie/wheelspin you need to manage with more power.
Good luck either way.
A.
I think you just talked me into attending the March Texas mile lol. Maybe I can use my A/F recorder and play with the PCV while I am there. I like to learn as much as I can but I do want to hit 200. The hard part of working on the shifts is there are not many places where I can practice at. You know as well as me by the time I am clicking into 4th or 5th I am way past the posted speed limit. I like the idea of being able to do it in a closed enviroment. However, learning to drag knee at the track was a blast! No one could touch me on the straights lol.
Thanks again for your input, I do listen to what everyone has to say. You made me think more of just improving myself before I put NOS.
Are you going in March?
____________
Texas Mile - 201mph
LTA - 221.18mph track record... for now
Mojave Mile - 213.2mph
Texas Mile Beeville - 210.5
http://www.youtube.com/user/horsepowerMafia
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glarior
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 23, 2011 11:49 AM
quote:
glarior,
it was good yakking with you in Oct, and i see you are prepping for March.
Registration opend today at 5pm!
I admire your pluck, getting up at 5am, riding down to Goliad, racing, then riding home.
In March you should hook up with a TFA-er, trailer it down. Cut down on stress.
As you have already discovered, TFA-ers are a looney but friendly buncha folks. I am pretty sure one of em lives near you and will share trailer space.
Where are you located, and remind this ole man what yr name is???
Karl
(you did get a TFA T shirt, didn't you?)
Check your PM
____________
Texas Mile - 201mph
LTA - 221.18mph track record... for now
Mojave Mile - 213.2mph
Texas Mile Beeville - 210.5
http://www.youtube.com/user/horsepowerMafia
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted January 24, 2011 04:44 AM
Are you going in March?
-----Negative. While I do plan on going back to TX one day for sure, this year probably won't be it. This will be the year I get out of debt and buy a house with a garage....long overdue with multiple bikes!
A.
____________
Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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glarior
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 24, 2011 07:44 AM
quote:
Are you going in March?
-----Negative. While I do plan on going back to TX one day for sure, this year probably won't be it. This will be the year I get out of debt and buy a house with a garage....long overdue with multiple bikes!
A.
That's a good plan. I am working on building a shop/garage but money seems to go towards the bike and car instead lol. Best of luck!
____________
Texas Mile - 201mph
LTA - 221.18mph track record... for now
Mojave Mile - 213.2mph
Texas Mile Beeville - 210.5
http://www.youtube.com/user/horsepowerMafia
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted January 24, 2011 08:37 AM
Glarior- Where in Tx are you located, we should talk? LMK Whatever help I can provide,
can even loan some sprockets out too. Try going to the Dragstrip a few times,
the 1st 1/4 mile is just as crutial as your tuck and you can work on your shifting too.
Airshifter is definitely a bonus!
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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glarior
Novice Class
Posts: 82
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posted January 24, 2011 08:58 AM
quote:
Glarior- Where in Tx are you located, we should talk? LMK Whatever help I can provide,
can even loan some sprockets out too. Try going to the Dragstrip a few times,
the 1st 1/4 mile is just as crutial as your tuck and you can work on your shifting too.
Airshifter is definitely a bonus!
Pm sent
____________
Texas Mile - 201mph
LTA - 221.18mph track record... for now
Mojave Mile - 213.2mph
Texas Mile Beeville - 210.5
http://www.youtube.com/user/horsepowerMafia
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