aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 10, 2010 08:16 AM
quote:
you need 24V, plain & simple.
i tried everything, bigger cables, HUGE battery, new starter, retarding adv, you name it.
24V cured my hot starting issues.
You are probably right, however I still would have that issue with how many starts. I know it isn't the battery because I've use two separate ones.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
  
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted September 10, 2010 04:16 PM
my 1380 started great with 12v. 13.7:1 cr , cams at 105 106. TWO stock batteries. spun over faster than dads 1287 with a bigger than stock battery. no issues with one battery going dead, super easy to wire, but there is a a way to set up 24v so both get charged. i have the diagram if you need it
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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1tbone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 12, 2010 05:07 AM
check your stater clutch/toque limiter for galling on the clutch surface.This will slow starter rpm's
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 12, 2010 05:00 PM
I put the new plugs in and retarded the ignition to -5*. The bike would only sputter and puff. What the! Decided to go back a little and check things out.Found a valve .005 out of range and reshimmed after removal of snapped cam cover bolt.  Cams were in properly and back we go.My brother came over and we started testing the coils for resistance and voltage. 10.4 volts to the coil. Well on the charger the lithium ferrous goes and it took a charge to 16.8vdc. We put the battery in and same thing.sputter.Decide the only other thing that changed was the timing. Upon further inspection, the sensor had marks on it where the Muzzy advance ignition rotor was hitting it. Put the stock one back on and it started right up.  I let it warm up and it restarted twice giving me a lot of hope. I left it running while my brother was checking running voltage and I put the air ram tubes back on. Sure enough shut it down and it would not restart. My brother seems to think it is the starter causing the problem when it gets hot. I looked in the manual for the clutch/torque limiter 1tbone(welcome by the way) mentioned and I would have to split the cases to get that out. When I get a chance, I'll pull the starter and take it apart to see if the bearings are still good in them.At least I feel I'm starting to make progress.I may just see if the lithium battery fits my battery box and use it as the secondary starting battery.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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1tbone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 14, 2010 04:07 PM
Remove starter. Remove the breather cover, take out the rear balacer shaft and balancer .Remove the starter clutch shaft and starter clutch and inspect
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Stuart Racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted September 14, 2010 05:12 PM
Cashio Cycles 1 504 393 2260
Paul Cashio High Performance motorcycle starters.....
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aliveagain
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Posts: 5033
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posted September 15, 2010 06:08 PM
Next time I drop the motor I'll have to pull out that starter clutch. It seams like the reverse is going on now. When at temperature, the bike will start right up. While cold, it sounds like it is skipping on the teeth. I don't normally ride fast but I can't believe how hard it was still pulling at redline in sixth and I'm 260lbs. With all six arms on the lock up having just bolts in them, I can still feel the clutch give a little in 1st and 2nd. With the full Spectrum battery in there as asecondary, I've had 6 starts without issue of voltage.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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1tbone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 16, 2010 01:07 AM
Mine was kicking back, skipping and turning over slow ,barely firing it off.changed out the starter motor ---same thing. Looked at the clutch ,all galled up. Bought a used one on ebay put it in & problem solved! Now i keep spare clutch set up on hand.
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1tbone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted September 16, 2010 01:10 AM
i must admit mine is easy to get to. It's in a crome moly chassis and i don't have to deal wth the balancers
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 16, 2010 04:43 AM
quote:
Next time I drop the motor I'll have to pull out that starter clutch. It seams like the reverse is going on now. When at temperature, the bike will start right up. While cold, it sounds like it is skipping on the teeth. I don't normally ride fast but I can't believe how hard it was still pulling at redline in sixth and I'm 260lbs. With all six arms on the lock up having just bolts in them, I can still feel the clutch give a little in 1st and 2nd. With the full Spectrum battery in there as asecondary, I've had 6 starts without issue of voltage.
Pete,
i kinda find it hard to believe yr lockup is slipping with or without the bolts on the arms unless something is very worn out in yr clutch.
are you sure it is slipping???
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 16, 2010 06:36 AM
Well the steels aren't warped and the frictions are within spec. It's possible it was the tire breaking lose but then it usually keeps spinning. I may have a chance to go to a private track day soon and will play around with how many arms to keep on it. One difference in how I ride now is that I'll let the motor come fully up to temp before I romp on it.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Stuart Racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted September 16, 2010 11:11 AM
quote:
quote:
Next time I drop the motor I'll have to pull out that starter clutch. It seams like the reverse is going on now. When at temperature, the bike will start right up. While cold, it sounds like it is skipping on the teeth. I don't normally ride fast but I can't believe how hard it was still pulling at redline in sixth and I'm 260lbs. With all six arms on the lock up having just bolts in them, I can still feel the clutch give a little in 1st and 2nd. With the full Spectrum battery in there as asecondary, I've had 6 starts without issue of voltage.
Pete,
i kinda find it hard to believe yr lockup is slipping with or without the bolts on the arms unless something is very worn out in yr clutch.
are you sure it is slipping???
X2....When the arms lock down, the clutch is locked up....
So does this mean you might have the hot start problem figured out maybe?????
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Life in the Fast Lane..........
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 16, 2010 12:18 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Next time I drop the motor I'll have to pull out that starter clutch. It seams like the reverse is going on now. When at temperature, the bike will start right up. While cold, it sounds like it is skipping on the teeth. I don't normally ride fast but I can't believe how hard it was still pulling at redline in sixth and I'm 260lbs. With all six arms on the lock up having just bolts in them, I can still feel the clutch give a little in 1st and 2nd. With the full Spectrum battery in there as asecondary, I've had 6 starts without issue of voltage.
Pete,
i kinda find it hard to believe yr lockup is slipping with or without the bolts on the arms unless something is very worn out in yr clutch.
are you sure it is slipping???
X2....When the arms lock down, the clutch is locked up....
So does this mean you might have the hot start problem figured out maybe?????
Yes,I'm back to 24vdc. With the lithium battery, I am getting a lot of starts off the secondary battery. Before I had it mounted on the external side of the primary battery and it bother my leg also.
With the smaller battery, I have it in the tail now
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 16, 2010 12:52 PM
i would check to see if you have the cable adjusted correctly on the clutch. 6 bare arms are 3 more than you need
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 16, 2010 01:58 PM
Are you saying the cable is hanging up?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 16, 2010 05:58 PM
if the cable is too tight it can hold the pressure plate out and not allow the clucht to fully compress no matter how stiff the springs are or how much weight you put on it(unless you put enough to snap the cable)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted September 17, 2010 01:54 AM
1/8th inch play at the end of the cable measured in the clutch lever.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 18, 2010 03:41 AM
quote:
Remove starter. Remove the breather cover, take out the rear balacer shaft and balancer .Remove the starter clutch shaft and starter clutch and inspect
You must be talking about some other motor.
On a ZX12 there is no way you can remove the starter clutch just by removing the breather cover.
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