aliveagain
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posted May 28, 2010 02:08 PM
oil for torqueing
What oil do you guys use to torque the engine nuts on the cylinder studs? Any harm in using assembly lube?
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dougmeyer
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posted May 28, 2010 07:07 PM
You can use assembly lube, but NOT anything with or mixed with moly paste. It is too slippery and you'll over stretch the fasteners. Unless, of course, the fastener torque value specifies moly lube for the lube.
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KZScott
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posted May 30, 2010 07:07 PM
so far ive used whatever oil was going in the bike at the time. either cheap break in oil on a fresh build, or RP when it was just apart for a brief check on bearings
Im assuming you get a hair more stretch (negligible???) at the same tq with synthetic vs dino oil?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
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dougmeyer
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posted June 01, 2010 12:27 PM
That's probably safe, but not what I do. Actually, specifically, I use Torco assembly lube (the red stuff), on all the fasteners, washers, valve stems and bearings. I use two stroke oil on the rings, skirts, and cyls. I use a moly paste mixed with the Torco on the cam lobes and shims, clutch pushrod tip (anyplace with a high psi load). I use engine oil on the clutch plates.
D.
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KZScott
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posted June 01, 2010 07:28 PM
Doug, do you use moly on bearings?(does new vs reused shells make a difference?)
thx
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted June 01, 2010 09:02 PM
Doug - doesn't Torco MPZ assembly lube contain a lot of moly - enough to make a difference in the frictional loads in the threads? I've read that the presence of molybdenum disulfide can reduce applied torque at a given fastener preload by as much as 20%.
Suzuki and Honda recommend making a "moly oil" solution that is half engine oil like Shell Rotella-T 15W40 (lots of EP additives), half moly grease like Dow Corning BR2Plus (my favorite). Although I have cases of the MPZ assembly lube sitting around, I prefer the moly oil for three reasons: 1) it tends to stay where you put it and doesn't sag or flow; 2) it mixes better with motor oil, so it won't keep oil from getting to the various parts after it has been applied; 3) it's less sticky, making it more pleasant to work with. The manuals specify its use just about everywhere except for clutch plates and connecting rod bolts.
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dougmeyer
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posted June 02, 2010 10:13 AM
The Valco rep told me at one time that no, the Assembly lube didn't have moly, but that the Cam lube does.
The Assy lube is completely oil soluble. Back in the (air cooled) day I used to use KalGard which really seemed to help piston skirts, but it had so much moly in it that it would settle out into a paste in the sump.
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted June 02, 2010 09:13 PM
Hmmm - I thought they were the same chemistry with different viscosities. The Torco website doesn't really say much about it.
I hear you on the moly pooling up in the oil pan. I found that using an HDEO for break-in like Rotella, Delo or Delvac, with their high levels of detergency and generous amounts of dispersants, helps keep the moly in suspension and off of the oil pan. Ironically, Torco T-4SR is about the worst oil I have used in terms of keeping the engine internals clean. Back when I had Torco sponsorship, I had to run a fill of Delo through the motor every other oil change, just to keep the soot deposits from getting out of control.
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