billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted March 05, 2012 08:46 PM
GO 24 volts by just adding a 4 or 8 cell Ballistic 2nd batt. Real small and light.
Just the thing for ski's, and with that stroke/comp ratio your gonna need it.
Try running a jumper wire 10-12 gauge from throttle body housing to the boats main haul ground.
Is the ecu,cams,etc all from same year 12? and is the harness running the small in line resister.
If you have all this and enough artificial dwell ,then i would start looking at internal motor mech issues on #1 ?
These were some of the main problems with the big 12 motor ski's early on.
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bill eason
  
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 05, 2012 08:52 PM
The cams were 2000 year model, but the nub is clocked to the proper position, the ecu is aftermarket specifically for the ski. What resistor are you talking about? Ill run a ground wire to the throttle bodies and see what I can dig up on the 24v starting system.
Thanks
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 07, 2012 03:37 PM
I got the ski fired up today again, I kicked the base timing up from 3 degrees btdc to 6 and it started right up, it idled well and I killed it. I started it again and It fired up and reved much higher and stayed there. I killed it again and tried to start a third time to no avail. The battery voltage when I started it the first time was around 13.3v and it dropped to 12.6 or 12.7 when cranking the first time, the second time it was 13.1 then dropped to 12.5 or 12.6. when Idling the battery was around 12.9 or 13.1.
I have a much better injector angle now and I increased the fuel pressure which seemed to help but it is still not starting like it should.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 07, 2012 04:05 PM
use the stock zx12 injection pressure and use the 24vdc battery setup. take the cable off the starter and put it on the negative side of a noyther battery and the possative of the second to the starter.
doubble check but i think i have this correct. you will have to charge the second battery seperatly.
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted March 07, 2012 04:27 PM
It sounds like you still have a major current leak that you need to fix before you worry about anything else. Have you measured current draw at the battery with the ignition off? Have you removed all of the extraneous wires from your harness (lights, signals, side stand, fuel level sender, etc.)? Have you checked the harness to make sure it isn't trapped in an engine mount or otherwise damaged?
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 07, 2012 04:41 PM
Checked everything except voltage draw while off. I am waiting on an amp clamp before I can
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 07, 2012 05:05 PM
just keep it off and touch the cable to the battery. if it sparks once on big deal. if it sparks everytime you touch it it has a issue.
i know y2k told my 1375 will not want to start when it is warm with out a second battery.
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 07, 2012 06:18 PM
After pulling the battery off the charger the voltage drops very quickly, but after a little while ~2 minutes or so it stabilized around 13v I was able to start it and check my air fuel ratio at idle and it was 11.8 so I am rich for idle but the engine seems happy, I could probably use another degree or 2 of timing, that really helped out my starting issues.
I am going to hook up the rest of my gauges tomorrow and report back. I hope to be able to test the engine on the hose and get an idea of what else needs adjustment.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 08, 2012 06:19 AM
ya lean that out!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted March 08, 2012 07:50 AM
The engine is still on the warmup map, which will be rich. Idle mixture won't stabilize until the coolant temp reaches 160F or so.
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 08, 2012 08:18 AM
This engine uses open loop cooling so the coolant rotates, the oil temp controls the sensor but you are probably correct on the warmup map, I want to run it on the trailer this weekend and try to get everything dialed in.
I am going to wire up the gauges today and tighten the oil temp sensor as I am getting a slight dribble of oil out of it.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted March 08, 2012 09:59 AM
quote:
Checked everything except voltage draw while off. I am waiting on an amp clamp before I can
If your DMM has an unfused 10A input (most do), you can use that between a battery post and its corresponding disconnected cable. Your current draw should not be more than 10A. Just be sure you don't run too much current through your DMM for too long!
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 08, 2012 10:36 AM
Duh, I can't believe I forgot about that. At first key turn with fuel pump priming its 8.3 amps and once it shuts off it drops to 0.22 amps. Key off its 0.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 08, 2012 12:24 PM
I couldn't get the motor to start today with the same setting I had yesterday, I bumped the timing up to 8 degrees at idle and it starts again but idles very high ~1500-1800 rpm not the ~900 it had been, it also settles down over about 30 seconds and then dies, I have not changed anything until bumping the timing to get it to start. Any thoughts? I will pull some fuel out and see if that helps because it was idling rich (11.8 afr) but I am a bit confused right now.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 10, 2012 02:35 PM
I switched my plugs today to the correct ones but I am still having issues, it starts now with 7 degrees timing but if I kill it and restart it, it revs way up and stays there even though its 0.5 percent throttle. I am also having small kickbacks or backfires into the throttle bodies while starting and I can't figure out why, the cams are in the correct positions and the sensor nub is correct now as well. I am fairly good with engines but I can't figure this out. I heard back from my ski connection who knew about the 14:1 cr pistons and he said they only run 12v through the starter mine is only 12:1 cr so I should be alright but I am still not sure what is wrong.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 10, 2012 03:06 PM
to me in the things i mess with a spit through the carb/ throttle bodies is a lean backfire. that is the afr when it is running highrpms? a lean out will tend to have things rev some for the same throttle. that is a hanging idle issue most of the time i add fuel/jet and when you blip it it comes back to idle instead of taking a long time to rev down.
it will also do it if you have a loaded up idle speed set to where you want it to be and you blip the throttle and clean it out it will rev higher till it loads up again.
put a motties afr tuner on it and have it fix it itself maybe?
i will look at my timing to see what it is at.
also setting the tps on your ski with a bike ecu may be a lot different. the idle rpm it needs to be at vs the air gap it may be on your setup i would thing be different with the software written for a bike with a smaller engine. i remember you mentioning a bike ecu?
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 10, 2012 03:17 PM
I am using a programmable one now, similar to a motec. It was made by a company called yellow racing specifically for the ski. I have gotten it to start easier by backing the idle secrew down to 0.5 percent throttle but it is still a little inconsistant.
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 10, 2012 03:40 PM
11.8:1 AFR is way too rich for no load, low rpm
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 10, 2012 03:42 PM
well i say if it runs and is safe afr wise then get it completed and in the water to load it and start tuneing it. worry about the little stuff later. it may get figured out when it gets settled and broken it.
my idle timing is 10deg from 800 to 1600 rpms not sure tps though my enginuity says from 21% to 23% throttle.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 10, 2012 09:57 PM
its not making enough hp to hurt its self at idle even if its 16:1 afr. aim for 13(when warmed up) and see if it clears up.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
|
posted March 10, 2012 10:11 PM
I backed the throttle down with the idle screw from 2 percent to 0.6 percent and that helped a great deal, the throttle position setting jumps from 0 to 1.6 to 2.3 so anything over a certain amount makes the fuel and timing jump up. I think this was a big part of the problem because it starts much better now. My new issue is that it idles too low and will stall out after idling for a while so I need to get more air in to the throttle without the sensor reading the throttle open more. I can either adjust the sensor so it reads 0 now and open the throttle more or i can open the unused vacuum locations up and use that for idle control.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted March 11, 2012 07:51 AM
your engine idles off mostly speed density of it is like a street bike. so while it is running i could move my tps around and not mess it up. you know a change if you jerk it hard.
maybe have it loose and move it twards closed while idleing. bur like i said if it is like a bike it is idleing from iap and rpm not tps and rpm.
i can even unplug the tps and the idle quality does not change. it did shut off when i unplugged it but started up.
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 11, 2012 08:29 AM
Ahh that is what it would do if I were using the bike ecu, mine is programmable and I have it set to use alpha-n right now. The ecu has the option to use throttle or map for control and since throttle is simpler right now that is what I am using.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 11, 2012 09:53 AM
Still having the weird second start issue, it runs like crap and even if I blip the throttle it stays at higher rpm, it usually stalls then and white smoke comes out of the throttle bodies.
Sean
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1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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smokeysevin
Novice Class
ZX12r-STX15f hybrid motor
Posts: 82
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posted March 11, 2012 09:56 AM
With my low idle I can hear the engine trying to stall out on one of the cylinders, there is a little woosh of air that I can hear coming back out the throttle body of one of the cylinders but it wont start with more than 0.5% throttle open, what should I do to get my rpms up at idle?
Sean
____________
1498 cc
69.2mm stroke
83mm bore
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